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UHV balance/feedback

Discussion in 'RFC mod-mod: Classical World' started by srpt, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    I'm curious about the following goals and whether anyone has achieved them:

    Han, twice the population of your nearest rival

    Kushans, world's largest empire

    Axum, in the top 4 civs by score

    Yamato, the tech goal
     
  2. Crossphazer

    Crossphazer Chieftain

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    Kushan's I've done. That one's the easiest of the four.
     
  3. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    The Han goal really depends on how well/badly the Romans do. If they underachieve as usual from the 320 BC, it's pretty easy given how food-rich China is.
     
  4. SanJose

    SanJose Chieftain

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    Axum's top4score i've done on monarch without expand in Nubia and Egypt (first attempt)
     
  5. Crossphazer

    Crossphazer Chieftain

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    Meroe highest production in 100 BC is also a pretty difficult goal.
     
  6. SanJose

    SanJose Chieftain

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    i think that settled 10-15 slaves and micromanagment citizen in checkpoint data helped for this goal
     
  7. Rod

    Rod Chieftain

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    V. 0.14

    Mauryans on Emperor:
    1st UHV: hard, but possible / 2nd and 3rd UHV: very easy

    Roman Empire on Emperor:
    1st UHV: medium difficult / 2nd and 3rd UHV: very easy
     
  8. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    which start? I'm interested in the 80BC start because the competition is stronger there I think.

    did you expand at all?

    I will change the Edicts to 200BC and the sainthood to 100BC
     
  9. Crossphazer

    Crossphazer Chieftain

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    320 BC start for Kushans, unfortunately.
     
  10. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    try the 80BC start. you still get 130 years of auto play so there is variation.
     
  11. Rod

    Rod Chieftain

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    This is too hard again, you need the production until 200BC to pump out defensive units, especially Elephants.

    Then , after you conquered, you have the time for your spiritual well being.

    Make it 150 BC.
     
  12. Rod

    Rod Chieftain

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    Btw. I started Sri Vijaya and got 7 cities by 700 AD, but no checkbox is checking and besides the other targets are not shown at all.
     
  13. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    I will check it out
     
  14. Rod

    Rod Chieftain

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    Sri Vijaya (AD 550) Emperor:

    1st UHV (7 cities) : medium difficult,
    2nd UHV (11 luxuries):

    if the wisdom resources count, then maybe, possible
    You can trade Buddhist, Confucian (Koreans), Islamic (Arabians) and maybe Hindu Wisdom (depending on relations with Gupta)
    You can steal : Silk
    You can settle: Pepper, Tea, Pearls, Gems, Ivory
    You can conquer from Independents: Cinnamon (Kerala)

    So to achieve the goal in the end you need to:
    Research Navigation : possible
    Either make contact with the Europeans and trade gold, or silver or dye: possible
    or get Hemp from the Indians: interestingly, none of them is showing Hemp in their trading menu, no clue, why

    3rd UHV: not possible. Don't know how you had this idea, but in order to have the largest population until 800 AD you must take over the Tang and this is way beyond your abilities!

    Better UHV's would be:

    1st UHV : Settle 7 cities till 700 AD
    2nd UHV : Control Sumatra, Java, Malay, Kalimantan, Seludong (Phillipines) and Funan until 800 AD - this is in line with the correct campaign of the Sri Vijaya
    3rd UHV: Have 10 luxury resources (including wisdom resources) till 840 AD

    Current bugs:
    After researching Stern Rudder, you can build Great Galley , but NOT the UU
    Only victory condition No. 1 is showing in the menu and is not checked after achievement
     
  15. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    thanks for the feedback.

    I wasn't intending the religious resources to count as luxuries. the goal was supposed to be a combination of settling and trading. I will look at the map and come up with a better number.

    does anyone have any ideas to change or replace the population goal?

    what about this: ensure that southeast Asia has more temples than either India or China
     
  16. Rod

    Rod Chieftain

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    The production on these islands seriously sucks. Besides, its a time issue. Until 700 AD you need your production to build settlers. Then you have to assemble an army to invade Funan in order to get the urgently needed Slaves. Most resources, especially Timber, are also 2 tiles away from a possible settling spot (no Jungle!) and hence you need Monuments.

    In between all of this you don't really have time to build Temples.

    Please be also careful with targets that depend too much on events out of control of the player. Meaning, it is fine to force the player to trade for resources, but please make only one resource dependent on it. Too much can happen. The civs which are theoretically holding more than one of a certain resource might have already traded it away to others before you even reach them. You simply might be unable to get on good terms with them or a thousand other reasons. So one resource is fine, but not more.
     
  17. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    I will move some of the resources so they are easier for Srivijaya to access.

    I want the luxury goal to depend on trade. I don't think trading for 2 resources is unreasonable. there are many potential partners. I think SE Asia needs more to offer in trade though so I will take care of that.
     
  18. SanJose

    SanJose Chieftain

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    320DC start, i capture 5 cities in Arabia and Al-Kudus, found 2 cities in Africa.
    Destroy some civs with diplomatia for 4 place in top score
     
  19. Rod

    Rod Chieftain

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    Tocharian on Emperor:

    1st UHV (5x Open Borders): fine, you can get in before 0AD
    2nd UNV (incense, silk) : fine, I managed it in 0AD
    3rd UHV (spread Buddhism to 5 Chinese cities):really difficult, managed it on the last turn and I had to pull several stunts

    While having my Golden Age from the achievement of 2 goals in 0 AD I moved into Central Asia (having settled the Ferghana valley before). Only Samarquand (and Bactria) had Buddhism (it never spread to the Tarim valley). So it became key to capture and hold Samarqand. Please note than this section of the map gets invaded by Horse Archers like every few turns at that period of time.

    Due to the whipping of walls and a combination of Bowmen and Spearmen I was able to fend off the Barbarians and in between the invasions to rebuild the plundered resources with the help of the scores of slaves coming from these attacks. I had teched to Selective Breeding which allowed me to extensively exchange technologies round about the same time and therefore transformed me from a backward nation of sheep herders into a medium advanced kingdom. Moreover I got access to Camel Riders which further helped with those horse-riding Barbarians. (Still, fending off Strength 7 Horse Archers and Strength 8 Heavy Horse Archers is no easy task)

    Then the spawn of the Kushans happened. So I reloaded, moved all my army out of all cities in Sogdiana, Bactria and Ferghana (god bless you did not code some more Barbarians invasion in that year) . Then I let the Kushans spawn .. and moved my army in again. After the Kushans had lost all their cities but one in only 1 year they were ready to become my vassal.
    Naturally I had lost many buildings in the process, several trade treaties had to be renegotiated as I had lost access to my resources for a time and I also had lots of unhappiness because many of my citizen considered themselves now to be Kushans rather than Tocharians. Still, you can handle such things.

    The next challenge was to reach the ability to build Buddhist missionaries. The only possible tech to be reached in time was State Religion. I got this by around 100 AD. However I could not switch easy any more, as my stability was too compromised, so I decided to gain a second Great person in order to have a third Golden Age (the first one I also had in the the years after 0 AD in order to prolong the Golden Age from the achievement of 2 UHV goals, didn't think I needed another one in those days)

    By 136 AD I got my 2nd Great person and started another Golden Age. I therefore could switch to State Religion without losing Samarquand. Still, I had forgotten that one could only convert to a state religion which is present in half of your cities. So I pulled off my last stunt. I gifted all cities but 4 to the Nan Yue after moving out my army. Then I switched to Buddhism. In the next turn the Nan Yue collapsed due to overextension. Then I moved in again. About the lost buildings and trade contracts I didn't even care no more.

    Somewhat on the way I had picked up Metallurgy and Samarquand had a Blacksmith and other productivity enhancing buildings. So I was able to produce a missionary every 3-4 turns and send them on the long way to China.

    God Bless I already had a road from Samarquand till Dunhuang, which I extended then into China.

    Literally on the last turn the last missionary reached his goal. However I really needed many stunts to pull this off.

    Pros:

    1) Fighting Barbarians successfully can be fun and creates excitement

    2) Moving from the inhospitable Tarim desert into the comparably fertile valley of Ferghana and then on to the plains next to the Amu Darya feels ... damn good!

    3) In the end I had 6 cities in the Tarim Basin, 2 cities in the Ferghana valley, 2 cities in Bactria and 3 cities in along the Amu Darya and the Syr Darya and still expanding. That is not bad for some backward desert twelling sheep herders.

    Cons:

    1) Buddhism not spreading into the Tarim Basin (despite availability of 6 cities) is not fun.

    2) Bhodya (Buddhist Holy city) not reachable during the whole game. At first it is occupied by Mauryans which collapse too fast to the Sunga in order to build good relations. The Sunga are extremely hostile and only warm up when they get stomped by the Saka, soon after the Sunga collapse then as well. Eventually the hostile Saka hold the city until 200 AD and there is also no dealing with them short of invading North India .. which becomes even less an option when the Saka capitulate to the Parthians and become their vassals.

    3) Kara-Khoja. This city (in the Tarim Basin) seems to give access to silver. Actually the program even advices this settlement spot by giving it a blue circle. Silver is always welcome and not the least to make the bigger cities in Central Asia happy (especially with all this "We feel we are Kushan"-nonsense). However, first surprise, your settler can reach a spot on the desert that your workers actually cannot reach. Hence, in order to move workers to the Silver you must go all the way around. However when you finally reach the spot after many turns then it laughs you into your face by saying ... no, no, there is a forest on the mine and you need Blast Furnace to mine me ...
    I suggest to remove the forest and to let workers enter this spot.
     
  20. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    thanks again for detailed report.

    I will look into the Tocharian Buddhism thing. Buddhism is actually coded not to spread to Tarim if the Tocharians are human. I remember getting a pilgrim through very early. you can bypass Ferghana, Sogdiana and Bactria by going over Karakorum pass. I just tried it again and you can build pilgrims right from the start and the Mauryans will open borders for 10g.

    I know that silver is messed up. I will fix it.

    those early heavy horse archers are an error I think.
     

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