Un-Vassal

[guycitron]

Hello all,

Quick question, if anyone knows: What is the easiest way to remove vassal agreements?

In the game I am currently playing (Vanilla BTS, Warlord difficulty) I have a voluntary vassal and a capitulated vassal. I want rid of both of them but they won't go away! Now I am thinking it was a mistake to have ever agreed to 'protect' them.

Japan has been my voluntary vassal since nearly the beginning of the game. They are a weak, nothing empire that is the very last on the score list. I want to drop them so I can declare war on a powerful neighbor and not drag them into it. I guess if they get conquered, that would solve the problem of them being a vassal? Anyway, they have never left the voluntary vassal agreement and I can't figure out how to cancel it.

England is my capitulated vassal and they are also way down on the score list since the war. I didnt really want them as a vassal.. I just wanted to end the war for awhile while I focused on Germany.. but now all that is over and done with and I'm ready to focus on England. Good? Not quite.

I read that if they refused to accept a tribute demand you could declare war on them, but I have not been given this option. I figured I'd keep them around if I could just get all their resources (horse, tech) that I wanted, but they refused.. now I have a -10 'You made a outrageous demand'.. they are still my vassal.. and I don't have the stuff that I originally declared war on them for!!

Anybody? Can you help me? How can I kill these insufferable 'vassals'?

 

[IAM]

There are some advantages to vassals like for every vassal you have each of your cities gets an extra "We influence other civilizations." Have you considered gifting your vassals some military techs and let them help fight the war?

Anyway a voluntary vassal will stay that way as long as they want. Typically they will unvassal to you only if you become weaker than other players on the power graph. The war submitted vassal can break free if they reach, I think, 50% land and people of your civ. Or if they lose more than 50% of the land they had when they became your vassal. So if you go to war and they lose several cities that might do it. Personally I've never had a war submitted vassal break free.

I vassal about two thirds of my opponents and wipe out about a third. The ones I wipe out I do so because I like all their city sites. If I have tech brokering turned off in the custom game menu then once I war submit a vassal I load them up with all my military techs and start another war. I play on huge maps.

 

[Matthew5117]

If you want to cheat, open World Builder (ctrl-w) and change the relationships (not sure which button that is but it is in the top corner).

 

[UWHabs]

Getting rid of a capitulated vassal is tough. Can't you just get rid of a voluntary vassal by going to the diplo screen and cancelling the vassal agreement?

 

[Willem]

Can't you just get rid of a voluntary vassal by going to the diplo screen and cancelling the vassal agreement?

No, that option doesn't exist. It's totally up to the other civ whether they want to be your vassal or not, you have no say in the matter once you take them on. Which means you need to be very selectable when someone asks you and make sure you really want them.

 

[Joecoolyo]

No, that option doesn't exist. It's totally up to the other civ whether they want to be your vassal or not, you have no say in the matter once you take them on. Which means you need to be very selectable when someone asks you and make sure you really want them.

Really? I swear a long time ago I was able to cancel a voluntary vassal deal through the "What deals do we currently have" screen...

 

[IAM]

Another caution about voluntary vassals. Sometimes an AI will be engaged in a losing war with several other civs and ask to become your vassal. If you say yes you have them as a vassal AND as a bonus you are now at war with all of those civs too! Congratulations!

 

[guycitron]

Yeah but what about if your capitulated vassal refuses tribute?

Three times I demanded Guild tech from England and they refused! Now I have a -10 relationship modifier but they wont rebel and it doesnt give me the option to punish them!! :-(

If you go into Worldbuilder and modify the diplomatic stance, does it say you've cheated when you beat the game later on?

 

[Matthew5117]

Actually, in all the games I cheated in, I lost. So, I'm afraid I don't know the answer.

 

[Willem]

Actually, in all the games I cheated in, I lost.

Serves you right.

 

[Matthew5117]

What if I said I lost because it was too easy, so I quit?

 

[IAM]

"cheating" is a social constuct so it doesn't exist like gravity does. I don't 'enter world builder' because I like the challenge. Do what U want just enjoy the game.

 

[guycitron]

"cheating" is a social constuct so it doesn't exist like gravity does. I don't 'enter world builder' because I like the challenge. Do what U want just enjoy the game.

Well I enjoy being on the scoreboard even though Im the only person that ever sees it LOL. I dont want it to plaster 'cheater' on there as a score or something.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If you demand resources, there is a small chance the AI can break free by refusing. I've not pushed my luck in any real games though. Then again, I don't see how having a vassal you were willing to take in the first place is a hindrance, other than perhaps bad diplo planning due to the senseless averaging mechanic.

It's pretty easy to stuff vassal culture/space attempts by steering them away from relevant techs and if need by spyraping a city or two to 1 pop using unhealth abuse.

 

[Matthew5117]

Sorry I disappoint you guys.

 

[Supr49er]

If you play Single Player, use the WorldBuilder if you want.
However, I bet you'll find you won't want to use it except for testing.
The WorldBuilder won't make your game improve.

Welcome to the Forums guycitron.

 

[UWHabs]

If you play Single Player, use the WorldBuilder if you want.
However, I bet you'll find you won't want to use it except for testing.
The WorldBuilder won't make your game improve.

Welcome to the Forums guycitron.

Well, you use WB to fix your old mistakes, then you learn for next time. I haven't used it to fix a bad diplo situation, but if it's what's preventing your current game from going along, who's to stop you? Now you know for next time, think twice before capitulating someone or accepting a vassal. My rule for vassaling people is in a game, I'll either vassal everyone or nobody.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Well, you use WB to fix your old mistakes, then you learn for next time. I haven't used it to fix a bad diplo situation, but if it's what's preventing your current game from going along, who's to stop you? Now you know for next time, think twice before capitulating someone or accepting a vassal. My rule for vassaling people is in a game, I'll either vassal everyone or nobody.

If you know the mechanics really well and understand the diplo averaging rule, it's certainly possible to break that rule of thumb:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=311236

In other words, modifying vassal civics or religions can be important/game changing if you know what you're doing.

 

[guycitron]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I quit that game though after I got fed up with the vassal situation and deleted the saves.

However.. I have now graduated into Noble difficulty.. right now I'm playing as the Incas and did a Quecha rush on the nearby Ethopians to secure their small peninsula for myself... got the Native Americans on the other side of me and the rest of the world beyond them..

..this time...

NO PRISONERS!!!