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Underrated units

Discussion in 'Strategy Forum' started by Thalassicus, Apr 22, 2011.

  1. Thalassicus

    Thalassicus Bytes and Nibblers

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    There's several underrated units in the game, but one in particular I want to focus on right now are lancers. I've done a lot of work to give them a unique role completely unlike anything in vanilla.

    Lancers can get up to +100% defense, heal after moving, or 5:c5moves: from promotions, depending on what you want to use them for. Their cost was also dramatically reduced to the same as Knights. This makes them cheap to move in and improve flanking bonuses, or block counterattacks using their zone of control. Lancers can also double their sight range, and can get the Medic promotion to further help support other units. In addition to all this they have a +25% innate attack bonus now too, and their defense penalty was reduced from -50% to -25%.

    If you're a conqueror, try adding 2 lancers to your army for a wide variety of roles:

    • Scouting out threats to the army.
    • Finishing off wounded enemies.
    • Cannon fodder.
    • Improving flanking bonuses for main-army units.
    • Providing Medic healing.
     
  2. bigfatjonny

    bigfatjonny Warlord

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    Thanks, I hadn't realized all the changes that you had made. I will try them out next time.

    I have found them to be under used partly because of their position in the tech tree.
    Love the idea of having a purely support based unit. Is this something you could think about for other eras as well?
     
  3. Thalassicus

    Thalassicus Bytes and Nibblers

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    Paratroopers are another one I've been thinking about along the same lines. I've also considered adding some sort of classical-era version and making it an upgrade chain: scouts, classical-version, lancers, paratroopers.

    There's 5 or 6 leaders who have a Musketman-based unique unit, and Lancers are just one tech after that, so it's worth the beeline when we play one of those leaders. The Lancers provide excellent mounted support for our footsoldiers. :)
     
  4. bigfatjonny

    bigfatjonny Warlord

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    It annoys me that there are no upgrades for scouts, and that after Classical you cant build scout units at all.

    Not sure that paratroopers are the right unit, it just doesnt sound right. Is adding units still beyond the scope of this mod? Or are you up for a couple of new units?

    For WW2 type units, an engineer corp could be used, and communication / leadership unit for the modern.
     
  5. Thalassicus

    Thalassicus Bytes and Nibblers

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    When possible I like to modify existing units/buildings instead of adding new ones. It's tempting to add new units for lots of stuff, but more isn't always better. :)

    Some more possibly underrated units I'd like to cover are renaissance-era ships. I've done a lot to make this era more interesting. The two ships unlocked by Navigation have roles that compliment one another:

    Ship of the Line
    This new mainstream unit is the battleship of the renaissance era. It's the first ship to get the Demolish promotion (+50%:c5strength: vs cities), has an attack strength rivaling Cannon, and costs less than its land-based counterpart. The Ship of the Line is somewhat slow however, moving at a rate of 4:c5moves:, and uses 1 iron.

    Frigate
    Faster than its vanilla counterpart, the Frigate is a light support ship of the renaissance. It moves very fast at a rate of 6:c5moves:, is slightly cheaper than the ship of the line and uses no iron, but lacks Demolish.

    All ships can also now get the Scouting line of promotions for up to +2 sight and +1:c5moves:, and Siege promotion for 35%:c5strength: against cities. In addition, the Harbor gives 15xp for ships, and the Seaport gives 15xp and 50%:c5production: production. I pick a good coastal city to create my fleet and build a Seaport there.


    ~ Strategy ~

    Ships of the Line (SotL) are extremely useful for capturing ports since they're both siege units and the most powerful naval units of their era! It's like a Cannon that's also a Rifleman and Cavalry, all rolled into one unit. They move faster than land siege and can swarm a city, bombarding it down to 0 in a few turns to make way for your army. Get the Bombardment and Siege promotions for SotLs to support land assaults.

    However, since they're the first of the "battleship" line of naval vessels, they can't be upgraded to from earlier ships. This means the AI will have swarms of caravels and frigates scattered around the map. These vessels move much faster than a SotL, so it can be difficult to finish off enemies before they retreat. To combat this, once your Caravels are done scouting the map, send them back home and upgrade them to Frigates. I build a Harbor at the start of the renaissance to get scouting promotions for my caravels, and when they upgrade to frigates they can spot threats from a larger range than the siege-oriented SotLs.

    In short, if you plan on doing any conquest against port cities in your next game, try building a small fleet! I usually build at least one fleet of 5 ships, with 1 frigate and 4 SotL. If there's a particularly large number of coastal cities, or you're fighting on multiple fronts, you can build multiple fleets.
     
  6. black213

    black213 Emperor

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    Pikemen are also very underrated as they are pretty much obsolete if you have any Iron or Horses.

    What I would like to see is a buff to them what makes them a poor man's Longsword.
     
  7. Thalassicus

    Thalassicus Bytes and Nibblers

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    "Underrated" is when something seems weak but is actually powerful. If it really is weak it's underpowered, which is a different topic. :thumbsup:
     
  8. black213

    black213 Emperor

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    Well they still are underrated (or underused) whether or not they are UP ;)
     
  9. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    To me that is the whole point of strategic resources.

    If I have iron, then I want swordsman, a unit that will remain viable for a good long while.

    But if I don't have any iron, then I can get these pikemen. They aren't as good, nor should they be, but they can do okay.

    Now, I personally wouldn't mind another round of strategic resource reduction, I still think horses especially are a bit too plentiful. But if you have the resources, to me they should count big.



    Now...that said, if you wanted to buff pikeman, you could give them a bonus while fortified, or a bonus on defense. That would represent getting in the pike position and standing ready against charging forces.
     
  10. Seek

    Seek Deity Supporter

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    I think that is a great idea!
     

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