Unique Units for Permanent Alliance?

[dozens]

I am not even sure if this is the proper forum to ask this, but I was wondering if it would be possible to have unique units based off who you had a permanent alliance with.

I only ask this because in several fantasy settings I've read or played in (D&D) there have been alliances between two different cultures that resulted in something (unit, building, etc) that combined the best of both cultures. For example, a mechanical oriented country (similar to the tinker dwarves of the Luchiurp) and a magical oriented country (The Amurites) would result in say a clockwork beast that could cast fireballs.

Is something like this possible in BTS or the FFH2 mod? As in, can a unit have a permanent alliance as a requirement?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It could be cool, but is probably impossible (well, without creating a large number of new units/buildings for each civ and then adding a python block for each of them to make them require a permanent alliance with different civs. This would be quite award, especially since there would be no in game explanation for why you couldn't build the units normally.)

Of course, you can already have clockwork golems that cast fireball.

 

[Mesix]

The Luchiurp golems already cast fireballs. You just need access to fire mana abd you can build a blasting workshop. After that, all your golems can cast fireballs. My friend loves the Luchiurp for this reason. There's nothing like a stack of 20 iron golems with Empower 5 that cast fireballs to batter down the walls and deal out collateral damage before they even get to the city.

 

[xienwolf]

You could sort of manage it. If you gave a Unique Unit for one Civilization an upgrade option that requires a Unique Building of another Civilization, then you can only upgrade if you have Open Borders with them and are near one of their cities with that special building.


Could be cool (by the way, Luichirp can build Fire-wielding Clockwork Golems without any help. They do indeed exist in the game)

 

[Mesix]

You could sort of manage it. If you gave a Unique Unit for one Civilization an upgrade option that requires a Unique Building of another Civilization, then you can only upgrade if you have Open Borders with them and are near one of their cities with that special building.


Could be cool (by the way, Luichirp can build Fire-wielding Clockwork Golems without any help. They do indeed exist in the game)

That's a good idea. Coming up wil several options for each UU might be a monumental task though. There are 21 civs in the game (I think). That is a lot of possible combinations.

 

[Mewtarthio]

That's a good idea. Coming up wil several options for each UU might be a monumental task though. There are 21 civs in the game (I think). That is a lot of possible combinations.

210 combinations, if my math's right.

 

[dozens]

210 combinations, if my math's right.

Well because there are 21 civs I was thinking you could organize civs in categories to decrease the combinations or unique units. A simple example would be

Crafter
Magical
Soldier

 

[xienwolf]

Well, certain UU only match well with certain UB (Mounted UU with a Stable/hippodrome UB for example. And you could go further to make it so it has to be a completely UU, not a replacement UU (ie - Taskmaster wouldn't work (that is an assassin), but a Freak would (no correlation unit in other Civs). But doing that cuts a LOT of civs out of the loop.

Doviello, Sidar, Illian & Mercurian don't have any UB's unless you count the capitol either So only 17 Civs for buildings, 25 total UBs between them, and overall 98 UU. But that is counting the Slaves, Workers and shared UU (like Swordsman) for each Civ as well, so the actually number probably comes out a shade lower, but not too much.

 

[Fenboy]

210 combinations, if my math's right.

And there's already about 400 units stuck with vanilla art New UUs are not necessarily what the mod needs right now, IMO.

 

[it-ogo]

Svartaljos archery lodge: provides ambisinisterity to all units built in the city. Breeding pit of ancestors, governor's reliquary, golem warrens of light...

 

[merciary]

I had an idea like this for the Wonder Contest except it was with having a vassal not an alliance. Either way I like the idea.

 

[jrandrew]

So w/ 21 civilizations you get 410 possible combinations, I think (21 * 20.)

What about groupings of civs? E.g. a non-elven civ has a permanent alliance w/ an elven civ or vassalizes an elven civ and gains a special elven archer unit? Non-dwarven civ befriends dwarven civ and gets cannon access? Non-human civ befriends a human civ and gets a special mounted unit (I know, there are way more human civs, they would need to be subdivided more). But come up w/ 4 or 5 groupings of civs and then say that befriending someone in a particular grouping, regardless of what your civ is, makes it pretty simple.

The whole thread was started w/ the flavor of two specific civs joining for a special unit, but maybe we could simplify that enough to make it workable and actually possible in enough games to make the work worthwhile.

J

 

[Sureshot]

21*20 is 420 heh, and ya thats right, since you have 21 choices for your first pick of 2, and 20 choices for the second pick

 

[AlazkanAssassin]

21*20 is 420 heh, and ya thats right, since you have 21 choices for your first pick of 2, and 20 choices for the second pick

Yeah, but picking Lanun first, then Khazad is counted once and so is Khazad first, then Lanun. so you have to divide by two to get the answer.

 

[Sureshot]

obviously you are not aware of the rule that says if your answer comes to 420 then you stop your calculations and take a break heh

 

[dozens]

obviously you are not aware of the rule that says if your answer comes to 420 then you stop your calculations and take a break heh

True, which is why I and a couple others suggested grouping civs in categories.

Even if it was just by race it would be something interesting if done correctly. I mean if a human civ (Hippus) becomes a permanent ally of one of the Elves, you might think some human soldiers would get some elven training, in this case being the Hippus some specially trained elven archers.

The point of my original post was not to just add units just for the sake of adding them, but to add some flavor and also increase the desirablity of one of the core functions of the game.

I mean while permanent alliances can be nice as they are currently, they can be more of a pain in the ass. I can't control what my ally is doing, so if he creates the Mercurian Gate I can't stop him, nor could I build it first since he's already started it locking me out (currently happening in my game). It makes sense for some sort of collaboration between allies, and would give some incentive to use what I would normally consider a seldomly used part of the game.

 

[Sureshot]

permanent alliances mostly suck because they increase tech costs by a ton and you share GP pools so your GP rate sucks too

its only useful to do after youve got most of the tech tree between you.. but youre always better off with just trading techs