Unit creation

[WildWeazel]

The problem is WeaselOp is that is not to export all the information (animation, textures, mesh, etc) with the current group of NIF Exporters. Most of the open source plugins for the freeware/professional applications are either in alpha (can export Mesh/Texture) or beta (can export most, but may screw something up along the way). The big concern here is most of the NIF Exporter plugins are being made for current games that use the GameBryo engine. They may not be compatible depending on how the plugin exports information. For all we know as of yet there can be a huge difference as to be no compatibility with preexistiing open source plugins.

True I was able to export a very simple object into Civ4, but I don't know if it was the correct information in the export, for the game to use.

I still don't quite understand how this is stopping us. Since Civ4 obviously accepted your "unit", doesn't that mean it's in the right format? What would we need to do that you didn't do with your spheres?


@vingrjoe: There are enough different human models in the game that we should be able to get by for a while just with skins. Even Civ3 human units used a lot of the same models, or at least parts.

 

[Gaias]

@Weasel Op

What I was trying to infer with that statement was that even though I did export a basic primitive, it doesn't mean that it would actually work for all that is required to make a unit in Civ4. The plugin in question that I used with Milkshape 3d was a alpha opensourced project that was geared initially toward The Elderscrolls Morrowind (which also used the GameBryo engine). I say 'was' because said plugin is close to a year old and alpha notheless (all I could do was export the basic primitive into the game and nothing else, ie animations).

The other problem is that even though this instance did work the plugin was geared toward a different game entirely. Morrowind came out in 2002, and the authors of that plugin said explicitly that they were working on the NIF file format that was used in the game. Now I am pretty sure that the makers of GameBryo have upgraded their engine in that 3 year time. I am also assuming that Firaxis used a more recent incarnation of that engine. Just by an educated guess I would be lead to believe that even though both NIF file formats are in general the same, they may vary enough as to not be cross compatible. And that is the real problem.

Unless someone with good C++ and a knowledge in 3d applications wants to design a exporter plugin for one of the various 3d applications available to the public, we are just going to have to wait until Firaxis release their SDK with a NIF exporter. Until such time, things like units and building are not going to happen. Well at least not very easily one might assume.

 

[WildWeazel]

Ok, I get it now. Thanks.

 

[n003lb]

@Weasel Op

What I was trying to infer with that statement was that even though I did export a basic primitive, it doesn't mean that it would actually work for all that is required to make a unit in Civ4. The plugin in question that I used with Milkshape 3d was a alpha opensourced project that was geared initially toward The Elderscrolls Morrowind (which also used the GameBryo engine). I say 'was' because said plugin is close to a year old and alpha notheless (all I could do was export the basic primitive into the game and nothing else, ie animations).

The other problem is that even though this instance did work the plugin was geared toward a different game entirely. Morrowind came out in 2002, and the authors of that plugin said explicitly that they were working on the NIF file format that was used in the game. Now I am pretty sure that the makers of GameBryo have upgraded their engine in that 3 year time. I am also assuming that Firaxis used a more recent incarnation of that engine. Just by an educated guess I would be lead to believe that even though both NIF file formats are in general the same, they may vary enough as to not be cross compatible. And that is the real problem.

Unless someone with good C++ and a knowledge in 3d applications wants to design a exporter plugin for one of the various 3d applications available to the public, we are just going to have to wait until Firaxis release their SDK with a NIF exporter. Until such time, things like units and building are not going to happen. Well at least not very easily one might assume.

What if we don't really care about animations. I mean the animations are cool, but I can wait for them. I have an idea for a handfull of new units and I can design the models. In fact, I already have 2 of the models done in 3ds max. If this exporter of yours can export the model and textures, then we could possibly use it to create basic, non-animated units to use until a dedicated exporter is released. I personally don't care for the animations for the most part anyways.

 

[Corn Shucker]

I don't know what 'we' your talking about I would never put a non-animated unit into my game-just doesnt make sence IMO and I think a majority of the members would agree (naturally some wouldn't).

 

[WildWeazel]

Actually I think a CivI graphics mod would be cool.

 

[n003lb]

I don't have anything against the animations, but, in the interest of getting unit creation going, I would be perfectly happy having non-animated units.

Actually, I agree with Weasel about the graphics. I am stratagy board game veteren. My brother and I even designed a complete modern combat game, similar to Axis & Allies, using simple card tokens and flags for units. Less complex units makes it easier for us the create new units.

Instead of shelving new unit creation until January when a possible file exporter/converter becomes available just because we can't animate units, lets get the mechanics down and working. Then when the exporter/converter comes out, we can finish the new units. Not to mention, creating animations for these games is often not an easy task.

 

[EdCase]

Creating animations ...for this game should be relatively easy actually since the majority of units are humanoid...most animations will be a variation on a theme....
One basic rig..the clothes/weapons etc are cosmetic changes that can be simply "bolted on" to any animation sequence (gotta love bones)...Character studio is ideal for this...and (if I remember correctly) .nif files simply locate the correct keyframe to 'loop' from when a particular action is processed..thats what the kf file is all about

 

[n003lb]

Thing is, the units I want to create are not humaniod. I want to creat things like new ships and aircraft, which may be able to use one of the default keyframe files. How would we do this?

 

[catwhowalksbyhi]

I would ask one of the Freedom Force meshmasters for details, as most of their .nifs use default keyframes included with the original game. I believe the procedure as far as making the meshes compatible would be exactly the same.

 

[Vael]

I have no doubt Firaxis will release a Gamebryo exporter. Making Civ 4 the most moddable game with no ability to add new unit/building/anything models would be hilarious.

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Hey, I have an Idea!

Since Civ IV uses the Gamebryo engine, and Gamebryo is used by several other popular games, shouldn't there be a GMAX plug for Gamebryo models? If so, this would mean that you'd basically have the same capabilities as 3D Studio Max for modeling and animating (since GMAX is basically 3DSMAX without any rendering functions) that won't cost a red cent.

 

[Valandar]

Gmax is no longer going to be offered in a couple of months. Which means that the expense of creating a Gamebryo exporter will not be worth the while of either Gamebryo or Discreet.

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Gmax is no longer going to be offered in a couple of months. Which means that the expense of creating a Gamebryo exporter will not be worth the while of either Gamebryo or Discreet.

Well, Shucks, looks like I'll just have to forget making units for Civ IV.....

Unless someone would be willing to work on a Shade 7 plugin (Shade, which is originally a Japanese 3D program, is about as powerful as 3D studio max, but costs 1/10 as much and has the added benefit of a direct to Poser export feature).

 

[Valandar]

Sorry, dude.

Depending on the neccessary export settings, however, you could possibly do the base modelling for buildings and terrains, and pass them to a MAX owner to actually turn into game nifs. Rigging and animating character meshes, unfortunately, is terribly time-consuming, though, so MAX'ers might prefer to model their own...

 

[WildWeazel]

I never thought I would say this, but I miss FLCs

 

[heardie]

It looks like it is coming for you guys:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141424

 

[catwhowalksbyhi]

Valandar's one of those Freedom Force .nif masters I mentioned, so do listen to him.

 

[PointlesS]

on the subject of importing custom models I think we have to wait until we get the plugins...I made my own model to replace the fort model but it didn't work...the red sphere on the first page is just what the game defaults to if it can't find any model...in this case it probably couldn't read my fort model because it doesn't agree with the nif exporters that I've used and therefore all forts became red spheres...

there's no animation files for the actual fort model found in the game so it can't be because of no animation

 

[jak08]

Here is a Q does the 3ds Max have to be version 8 in order to have the models or would version 7 sufice, because I have found one on ebay for 100 bucks?