unit happies

[daladinn]

ok, thought i would restate it since no one made a comment the first time i posted the idea.

to the best of my knowledge civ4 truncates decimals. i see this as important because the idea of setting it to +1 happy per 4 or 5 units to me seems like a great idea. we can apply this to 4 or 5 of the more militaristic and nationalistic civics as well as even to possible buildings. this would prevent the +1 happy per military unit from being over powered and still allow for unit happiness in the game.

 

[Sureshot]

it was never overpowered to have +1 happy per military unit, its been a civic in the vanilla version for a long long time. its much cheaper and effective to use resources for happiness, and cheaper to use buildings for happiness.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Though both of those have limits. It's really a matter of opinion. On a high upkeep civic with no other features, it seems to be somewhat useful according to this poll. I could see a lower upkeep civic with other features giving fractional happiness for military units, I suppose.

 

[GeeJo]

Personally I'd prefer to see the mechanic added to the "Social Order" civic. In addition to actually making sense flavour-wise, Social Order as it is is a watered down copy of Nationalism, with nothing to recommend it at all. Finally it'd give a bit of a boost to The Order, which seems to be considered in need of one at the moment.

 

[TheJopa]

Social order is way too weak for religion specific civic. If fact it is so weak I choose either nationhood or consumption or liberty or whatever, instead of social order. Military production bonus is not much higher than nationhood (And you get nationhood at start, its low upkeep, 1 happy from training yard and has -25% war weariness), 1 happy for curthouse and basilica is not much because basilica is extremly expensive (courthouse is moderate cost IIRC), compare it to consumption=> 1 happy for extremly cheap building market, and 1 happy for moderate costed theatres and taverns. It is easy to oversee that 1 happy from training yard or market is better than 1 happy from basilica. But I'm not sure about attaching 1 happy per unit to social order, let see what other people think.

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

Going back to the original poster ... I see what you mean about truncation. I've seen truncation often used instead of rounding, though I cannot say this is universally true. If you are right that truncation would apply in this case, then the unit garrison effect would be very mild. There would be no effect whatsoever until the 4th or 5th garrison unit arrived, to use your example. Garrison happiness would not be unbalancing under this system. I figure you deserve recognition for this.

OTOH the effect would be so mild, would it be worth the effort of coding it and testing it? And exactly what existing flaw would this fix? I know the concept exists in vanilla, but IMO not every vanilla feature must also exist in FfH. There may be weaknesses to an existing civic, but why is garrison happiness always 'what the doctor ordered'?

What is so facinating about this round peg that it is tried out in every shape of hole? Show me a round hole, then I will wholeheartedly support calls for a round peg.

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

Social order is way too weak for religion specific civic. If fact it is so weak I choose either nationhood or consumption or liberty or whatever, instead of social order. Military production bonus is not much higher than nationhood (And you get nationhood at start, its low upkeep, 1 happy from training yard and has -25% war weariness), 1 happy for curthouse and basilica is not much because basilica is extremly expensive (courthouse is moderate cost IIRC), compare it to consumption=> 1 happy for extremly cheap building market, and 1 happy for moderate costed theatres and taverns. It is easy to oversee that 1 happy from training yard or market is better than 1 happy from basilica. But I'm not sure about attaching 1 happy per unit to social order, let see what other people think.

I've never been able to find a situation where I was better off using Social Order, nope.

To hijack this thread further, I think the best way to go for Order is to ignore the early religions. Then after you get Order, you spread it to your own cities via disciples/priests and you end up with a lot of Crusaders for free, which are a damn fine midgame unit. My first games as Order I was always replacing Leaves/OO/Runes, and then you don't get as many Crusaders. I think. Anyway, them free Crusaders...don't overlook 'em.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

My first games as Order I was always replacing Leaves/OO/Runes, and then you don't get as many Crusaders. I think.

I didn't know there was a connection. I don't think so...

 

[thealien_83]

Hmm..?

In my experience I've only ever received new Acolytes for spreading the Order. New Crusaders only when I conquer a city while playing as a civ with the Order as my religion. Did they change that mechanic somewhere down the road?

Cheers!

 

[Nikis-Knight]

You'll get crusaders if you have the tech to enable them. Unser implied that there was less chance if there are already religions in the city, which I hadn't heard before.

 

[Endovior]

It depends entirely on how soon you convert. Once you have the appropriate tech, you'll get Crusaders instead of Acolytes. I'm almost completely certain that that's the only mechanic.

 

[Mithrus]

Aye, Fanaticism tech is the key. Until that is researched, you will only get free acolytes (personally, I prefer acolytes). Once you have Fanaticism, you will only get crusaders.

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

You'll get crusaders if you have the tech to enable them. Unser implied that there was less chance if there are already religions in the city, which I hadn't heard before.

Yeah, all I have in ancedotal evidence. I should probably read, like, the rules or something. Anway, I've played the Order only 2, 3 times. The last time I did so I never had a state religion until I developed the Order. When I started spreading the Order, generally by building a Priest and using the Priest to found the religion and a temple, I got a Crusader every time. In my other games I was spreading Order to cities that already had a religion. In those games I cannot recall ever getting Crusaders so often and consistantly.

But it could all be a matter of perception, true enough.

 

[daladinn]

unsr , to go back and rehijack my own thread i see it actually happening like this....

you get 1 happy for every 4 units with military discipline which in and of itself kinda sucks , howeer waht you getting is actually .25 happy and you lose everything after the decimal

now lets say you have conquest and we set that to .1 happy per unit and you only have 1 unit still in town ... now your up to .35 and that still sucks

but say you take military state and its a big one for units and you get .4 for that lowly warrior of yours. well now your up to .75 ... still nothing to brag about

now we look at nationhood , social order, and crusade and give them say .25 , .35, and .15 (crusade should be lower imho since they should be out "crusading") . now your same warrior puts you at either 1.0 , 1.10 , or .9 depending on your choices. starts looking good if you have all your civics stacked to take advantage.

this gives the small flexibility of providing 1-2 happies to some just for having the right civics or if your a much more militaristic mindset you can gain a big bonus.

to me this jsut sounds like a much smoother curve to happies .... kinda like spreading out how some resources build on the tech tree.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Hm... I believe it would be cool if Crusaders could spread religion to a city without sacrificing themselves... and if Acolytes had 3 , but that's just a minor thing.

On the subject of unit happies, it might be an interesting mechanic to include fractional bonuses across the civic board.