unit promotion

[Yecos]

Hi,

Am I the only one to think that the new system of unit promotion is really bull**** ?

In fact the new system will never give as much bonus in combat as a veteran or elite unit (i.e. with +1 or +2) and will deadly increase micromanagement, can you imagine yourself choosing after evrey two strikes between 20 promotions for each of your 20 or so units involved in a war ?

I hope we will be able to mod the game in order to come back to the +1 and +2 bonus...

 

[Commander Bello]

Without knowing too much about the new promotional system, I could imagine that it might work pretty well.
I base my assumption upon the experiences with Panzer General 3D (Panzer General 2 in the US, as far as I know) where a similar system was in place and was working very well.

 

[antonio]

I dont like it that much either I just would prefer if we could have more types of units instead of promoting existing ones.

 

[ThERat]

once I heard about promotions I was really excited as I thought this could lead the ever evolving units. What I was thinking of is something like (numbers are just to set examples, not absolute) :
You start let's say with a spear (defense 2). It is heavily involved in battles and let's just say, after 10 victories it would get promoted to a defense 3 unit. This could mean that successful units would stay relevant throughout the whole game (without upgading). It could also mean to get other abilities.

So far what I read are promotions like +25% etc. Is this really that relevant in such a game which still depends so much on RnG? Only playing the game will tell.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

I got the impression that when a unit promoted, it got cool abilities too. If you were on an archapelego map or were at war with a nation with a coastal city, your promoted attackers could get Amphibious attack capability (like Civ 3 Marines and Berserkers) to give you an option there. Or maybe if you were getting hounded by a far away power that got RoP with neighbours that wouldn't give you one, you could give your unit the ability to use other nations roads or every tile counts as a road. I was under the impression it was like that...

 

[Vietcong]

i like the idea of of geting elit, vet. ect.. and haveing more units that do spaciffic jobs..

what i whold like is after the descovery of a spaficit tech, u can train troops for sertant jobs. for ex u learn the *blah blah *tech nogly, and so u start budling a troop unit in one city, and select a spacifict traing program, such as gurrilla combat ect. while keeping the vet. elaet thing

 

[Meleager]

I don't think we should be demeriting the system before we even get a chance to use it. You don't know, it might work really well, it might work poorly. We will just have to wait and see, remembering that they have been doing a lot of play testing.

 

[t3h_m013]

i think it looks like it could work amazingly well, getting rid of the more units wins idea and making it more strategic. choosing which units to take to which battle.

 

[Himalia]

I think all of thes options would work be it 25% bonus ior whatever, a taight forward +1 or +2 or even a special ability associate with what they just did. I hope they do something with it.

 

[ranLR]

has anyone else noticed in the gamespot vid where he talks about promotions and says something along the lines of "a lot of unit will really bog down the game, so we put promotions in". see where this is heading? it seems that with the hyped up graphics its really gonna be hard to have dozens of units in one attack like before. uh oh
and i wonder how a 20 unit stack will look with the new 3d version (what, will there be 60 soldiers standing around???)

 

[Schben]

Well, the point of this feature is so people will rely more on strategery and specialization than brute force. I like it, especially the idea of having medics!

 

[Superkrest]

im with ranLR..im noticing a disturbing trend here..less units..smaller maps...i have a feeling the games gonna have hugely exstravagant graphics...but with a cluttered map...smaller armies(which i love my stupid big navy army and airforce..even if not necissary)...i just hope were not all let down

 

[Texan General]

Honestly, I think the unit promotions/upgrades system will work pretty well. It allows for armies to first become specialized in where they fight and how they fight and next for them to improve in a significant manner throughout the game. For example:

In real life the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia is widely regarded as one the best infantry forces the world has ever produced. At the same time the armies of Russia are seldom beaten in history due to thier unique adaptions. So what happens if the two come face to face? Simple, it depends on where. If they come to grips in Russia then it is likely that the Russians will win using thier ability to survive the Russian winter, if in Virginia then the Confederates using thier superiod understanding of that terrain. This theme is continued throughout history. Armies are products of thier environments, leaders, and cultural backgrounds.

The added realism of this new system should prove to more challenging and realistic than a burden. In answer to the complaints of upgrading 20 some units every couple of turns: I don't see how even such a grotesquely exagerated situation would be more taxxing than the current system in which you must click through all your cities building que orders and that never added a new level of strategy to the mix.

 

[Sullla]

From what I could see in the E3 video when Soren was demonstrating Civ4, the unit promotions looked pretty neat. Obviously the specifics of what the promotions do won't be revealed until release though.

 

[Meleager]

On the smaller armies subject.. does it really make a difference?

So you are moving around 100 units instead of 500, so what? So are your enemies. Having less units takes less time time move them (therefor shorter AI turns).

I am all for smaller armies. Bigger is not always better.

 

[ThERat]

So you are moving around 100 units instead of 500, so what? So are your enemies. Having less units takes less time time move them (therefor shorter AI turns).

that's all quite true, but there is one thing to bear in mind. Let's say you fight 20 versus 20 units as currently possible. With the sometimes funny RnG, maybe 5 of your superior units end up beaten anyway (though your unit is better in attack and it's flat land).
Imagine now the same scenario with 5 versus 5 units. You lose 2 units to flawed RnG and there you are, ending up with 3-2 in the end compared to 15-5 before.
possible unless the RnG has been redesigned.

and multiple promoted units get so valuable that you might not ever want to take a risk of losing them.

 

[JavalTigar]

If you already organize your fighting forces into groups of calvary and inf protecting your artilery, then your more than half way to dealing with the new promotions. Now you set your extra movements together to get a blitz company. Your fights well in the jungle/forest group them together. I see endless possiblities for assault forces geared to crush key enemy holdings to make the rest of the invasion go smoothly.

And hey, if you don't like it you can always just pick the vet/elite option all the time. But I think the AI might hand you your butt cause it will be using tools that you are to worried about some extra logistics to use to their full advantage.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, I have a VERY strong sense that between special abilities versus certain units and the presence of a single combat strength stat (and the return of a firepower system BTW) that we will see far FAR fewer anomolous results than we have in previous games. i.e. if you send an elite Men-at-arms unit against a regular spearman you will win around 8-9 times in10-unless said spearman has been in a fortified position for several turns.
My point, I guess, is that Unit Promotions and Smaller Armies must be considered in the context of the broader changes to the combat engine!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Texan General]

Actually the way I understand the new system (and I could be wrong as I haven't really done a perfect job of keeping up) that the old spearman versus tanks thing won't ever happen.

 

[Dark Russell]

Does anyone know what happens when you upgrade the promoted units? C3 took your elite units and made them veterans...I wonder what will happen to the promotions in C4?