Unit Request: Assyrian Chariot

[Louis XXIV]

Anyone want to make an Assyrian Chariot?

I think it would go nice with the Etruscan, Mycenaean, and Trojan Chariots and would work for all the Middle Eastern civs.

Basically I want a Chariot with Assyrian-looking soldiers. It doesn't have to have more than a driver and an Archer. I attached two pictures. One is the regular chariot, which is what I want. The other, heavy Chariot really isn't what I want, but most detailed pictures were of this kind of Chariot.

 

[Mithadan]

Here's the Angus McBride painting that the Heavy Chariot model is based on.
Source: Mark Healy, The Ancient Assyrians (Oxford: Osprey, 1991), p. 44.

 

[ripptide]

well, same offer. I'll build it if you can convince BeBro to make it )

 

[BeBro]

Ok, I'll make the Assyrian and Summerian beside those I already announced. Ripp, I'm very glad about your help

But please, no more chariot requests then for at least three months ....

 

[ripptide]

not a problem buds ) did you need a Summerian as well or do you already have one made? And Mithadan, any good refs like you dug up for the Celtic?

 

[BeBro]

Yeah, a Summerian would be great too

 

[Mithadan]

Poor Bernd!

I think this unit would work well as the Sumerian Chariot, so, unless someone wants to make a hand-made version, I consider this request complete.

Seeing how this four-horse Sumerian chariot, and a two-horse version are on the way, maybe Bernd's (and riptides?) energies would be better spent elsewhere? If I may be so bold, perhaps in place of the Sumerian chariot a Pecheneg or Hussite war wagon would be of interest? (Pecheneg on the left, Hussite on the right)

I'd prefer the Pecheneg over the Hussite, because the time period and armour better fits with Middle-Earth -- this unit would be exactly what the Lord of the Mods needs for the Easterling's "Wainrider" unit (at present we're using the C3C Hittite Chariot, which is less than ideal).

No schematics for the Assyrian chariot or the War Wagon, riptide, but I'll see what I can find. I expect to find not much, because I don't believe there's as much public and scholarly interest in reconstructing these things. Celts are cooler in most people's minds!

 

[ripptide]

sounds good Mithadan, I'll be curious to see what you come up with. The only refs I could find with a very quick search were of 15mm miniatures, and look to be drastically different from the painting you posted. As to the Summerian or an alternative, I'll leave that up to BeBro )

 

[Mithadan]

Sumerian images (if that's what's decided):

The Sumerians invented the chariot, which they harnessed to onagers. These early chariots functioned less effectively in combat than did later designs, and some have suggested that chariots served primarily as transports, though the crew carried battle-axes and lances. The Sumerian chariot comprised a four-wheeled device manned by a crew of two and harnessed to four onagers. The carriage was composed of a woven basket and the wheels had a solid three-piece design.

Light infantrymen carried battle-axes, daggers, and spears. The regular infantry also used copper helmets, felt cloaks, and leather kilts. Source

Summary: four solid wheels, funny windshield at the front of the carriage, pulled by donkeys (make 'em smaller than horses, grey and with long ears! ). The passengers should at least wear those funky motorcycle-style helmets and carry lances (for poking, not throwing?). Too bad we can't have them hacking with those socket-style axes!

Intermediate image:

(This isn't listed as an Assyrian chariot but one from Ur, but I'm guessing it will be closer to what Louis wants for the Assyrian chariot -- minus the solid wheels. This was the closest thing to a schematic drawing that I could find.)

Assyrian images:

This is a very early Assyrian chariot (9th Century B.C.), so I dunno if it's what Louis has in mind. Apparently the armament of the soldiers (guys on foot and the dude in the chariot) are more Mittanni-influenced than the classical Lamellar Armoured Assyrian soldiers we all know and fear. Apparently the fabric horse armour was already around at this time (wouldn't those horses die of heat exhaustion wearing that kind of outfit in the Middle-East?) Notice how clearly the cool-shaped and coloured "drive shaft" (???) is depicted here. Maybe this chariot would be fine so long as the guys inside it weren't draped in silvery scale armour?

The chariots of the Egyptians and Assyrians, with whom the bow was the principle arm of attack, were richly mounted with quivers full of arrows, while those of the Greeks, whose characteristic weapon was the spear, were plain except as regards mere decoration. Source

Top-down view of two light Assyrian chariots (I believe this is closer to what Louis wants):

Now for some heavy Assyrian chariots one of which I posted a picture of, above.

Unfortunately, most of the Assyrian chariot pics I can find are of royal chariots (I think that's what you found, riptide), and I imagine that's not quite what the regular military charioteer would be in!

(Damn, that's a big picture!) One thing about Assyrian Royal Chariots is that they had a parasol. Nobody else had parasols, as this was a symbol of royalty. So don't put a parasol on the chariot unless we are s'posed to use it as a king unit!

Summary: big-ass spoked wheels, large semi-circular carriage (probably a lot like the Etruscan-Trojan-Mycenean chariots, but maybe larger???), uniquely shaped "drive shaft," crazy paint jobs, green (apparently) fabric armour on the horses, no parasol, and passengers inside wearing lamellar armour firing a composite bow -- at least (no need for the sheild bearers, if I get Louis' intentions correct).

Here's a picture of a classical Assyrian soldier wearing an iron helmet and bronze lamellar armour (he's a slinger, so I think he gets the corslet because he can't hold a shield?):

And I was right, no schematic drawings!

I'll see what I can ruslte-up for war wagons, now...

 

[ripptide]

great work Mithadan, more than enough for me to start the Assyrian chariot. Looks like you're right, may have been the royal chariot I found. Or maybe they were light chariots, not the heavy.

 

[Mithadan]

Cool, glad to be of help. Also glad that you can get along okay without schematics! (Haven't found much at all in the way of war wagons... )

 

[Louis XXIV]

I'd rather have the lighter Chariot (2-Horse version). Historically, the 4 Horse version was tactically useless, being way too heavy for practical use. The Heavy Chariot was probably used to show how important you were, rather than win battles (Cavalry could win you battles by now).

The top down view is almost impossible to look at, but I think that's what I want. I don't think I want the Oldest Assyrian Chariot Archer (9th Century), the armor reminds me too much of the middle ages (dispite how ironic that might be). I like the Horses very much, though. The Assyrian soldier holding the sling (last pic) seem to be the kind of Acher I would want (holding a bow, of course). I don't think I need/want more than two people in the Chariot (one driver, one Archer), otherwise, it would look too much like the Hittite version.

EDIT: About what the Horse is wearing, its just a guess, but I wouldn't be suprised if it actually helps the Horse by protecting it from the dust, and blocking sunrays from actually hitting the Horse.

 

[Mithadan]

I guessed that's what you were shooting for. I found more pictures of the heavy chariot, but hopefully there's enough for riptide to work with in order to make the light chariot. Mind you, I'm not sure I agree about the heavy chariot being relatively useless militarily:

In its final form the Assyrian chariot is a very different machine from that [of the 9th century BC, i.e. the pic I posted with the "medieval" looking Mittanni-style scale armour]. It now carries four men and is pulled by four horses, and is a very heavy vehicle indeed. Such weight precluded its use in hilly country [ahah! justification for the "wheeled" flag ]. However, at full tilt on a flat plain, as at Halule in 691 BC, it was an unstoppable and battle-winning asset. The horses are now fully covered with fabric armour, giving protection when in the charge and closing on the enemy line. The success of this design outlived the Assyrian empire, being adopted by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar II.
--Mark Healy, The Ancient Assyrians, (Oxford: Osprey, 1991), p. 62.

Granted, that's the only source I've got, but it sounds like was a pretty important vehicle -- even to the Assyrian's successors -- so long as you stayed out of the Iranian plateau (the cavalry was particularily useful there).

At any rate, perhaps at civ scale the heavy chariot and the light chariot won't be that distinguishable, except for the relative size of the wheels (and I think those giant wheels look pretty dang cool! ). BeBro said earlier on that he wasn't putting more than two guys in the chariot carriage, so there's no worry on that front. Same thing about number of horses, if I recall correctly. This unit chariot could be a "general" Assyrian chariot, then, as in it has only two horses, two passengers, but the carriage and wheels look a fair bit like the heavy chariot (i.e., like most of the pictures we've got).

By the way, Louis XXIV, are you cool with replacing the Sumerian Chariot request for a War Wagon request, and settling for one of the two Kish carts that Steph will convert from Chariots of War?

 

[Louis XXIV]

Granted, that's the only source I've got, but it sounds like was a pretty important vehicle -- even to the Assyrian's successors -- so long as you stayed out of the Iranian plateau (the cavalry was particularily useful there).

Of course, most of Assyria's battles were in the Zagros Mountains, although I suppose there were battles in Egypt. I know I've read reasons why the Heavy Chariot wasn't very useful, but I can't remember where I saw them. The only thing I do remember was a Discovery Channel program where they recreated Assyrian Chariots. They examined the theory that the Heavy Chariot was used a "shock vehicle" (the only possible explanation, considering that they still only have one Archer, and it is also a reason for the armor). When they built the Chariot, the 4 Horses could barely pull it, it couldn't really turn, and it seemed overall pretty fragile. It wasn't exactly a fair test, as they couldn't make the thing that connects the Horses without connecting two pieces of wood together (making it heavier).

That being said, I think the Chariot form of the Heavy version is fine, as long as the soldiers and Horses aren't like that (I can't say I really liked the Chariot in the first pic either, just the Horses ).

By the way, Louis XXIV, are you cool with replacing the Sumerian Chariot request for a War Wagon request, and settling for one of the two Kish carts that Steph will convert from Chariots of War?

I'm willing to drop the request for a little while, but you'll have to make your own request in a different thread

 

[ripptide]

well mebe we can make both and have you two duke it out with em to find out )

 

[Mithadan]

I would have loved to have seen that Discovery Channel show! Experimental archaeology rules!

well mebe we can make both and have you two duke it out with em to find out )

I'll probably lose, cuz I'm such a horrible player!

I'm willing to drop the [Sumerian Chariot] request for a little while, but you'll have to make your own request in a different thread

Okay, I'll get right on it!