Unit Suggestion: Late 20th Century Cavalry

[Ozymandias]

As part of a thread elsewhere, I remarked that, IIRC the PRC retained true horse cavalry units at least into the 1970s, for use in their undeveloped hinterlands. (I'm referring to a far greater scale than we all saw on TV recently from Afghanistan.)

My comment was initially intended as an aside, but then I began to consider the utility of such a unit, such as on a map where Wheeled units have limited mobility, and as an alternative heavy-infantry-firepower unit, with a decent movement rate, without requiring Oil.

... So, anybody up for creating a Maoist soldier, armed with an AK47, mounted on a horse?

It might also make part of a "realistic" upgrade path for the Keshik ... Which I still want to call "Horde" as that was the name for "Regiment"; perhaps "Horde" would suffice for the name of this hypothetical upgrade unit.

-Oz

 

[Yoda Power]

something like this?

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
something like this?

... So the Force IS with you ...

-Oz

 

[Dom Pedro II]

IMO, I think this is a good idea, but I'd say that it would be best to have the unit dismount before attacking... late industrial horsemen really became more like mounted infantry (only using the horses to move them from one battle to another rather than using them in the engagement). This would continue to be true in the late 20th century as well.

I don't think there are many who'd still use the horses in actual combat especially with automatic weapons so readily available.

 

[Procifica]

"alternative heavy-infantry-firepower unit"

Let's think about this....horse vs. say TANK, or horse vs. 155MM SHELL, or horse vs. BAZOOKA...you get the idea...

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Procifica
"alternative heavy-infantry-firepower unit"

Let's think about this....horse vs. say TANK, or horse vs. 155MM SHELL, or horse vs. BAZOOKA...you get the idea...

No, think a thousand-mile long Sino-Soviet border, mostly rough terrain -- either mountainous, desert, or undeveloped for motorized let alone mechanized warfare -- of one sort or another. Think of the principal military bottleneck for the USSR being the Trans-Siberian Railroad. Consider the border skirmishes fought along the Amur River in the 1960s. Think about the USSR having solicited Nixon for his opinion on their "taking out" the PRC. Further consider "rumors" that the PRC actually mined critical invasion routes from Siberia with nuclear devices. Think a real, 1970s or later Sino-Soviet War. NOW think about -- I believe the PRC fielded two "divisions" of approximately 10,000 men each -- cavalry slicing up the Trans-Siberian RR -- and of the entire Soviet Far East being effectively isolated, as the Soviets had no way of effectively garrisoning its entire length.

Part of the amusement of Civ are realistic might-have-beens. And one realistic might-have been is to field those two cavalry units -- quite OBVIOUSLY avoiding little blunders like trying to engage a well-supplied Soviet mechanized force in open terrain under clear skies -- and, personally, I'd put my money on the guys in the ill-fitting, quilted Mao suits who have superior mobility and the ability to choose both their targets and the time and place of attack, dismounting to attack with automatic weapons, RPGs, and mortars.

... And its EASILY simulated in Civ with one side being dependent on a RR through terrain wheeled units cannot otherwise move through, and pillage away.

Current military-speak for such approaches now carries the lofty label "Asymmetric Warfare".

Yours With Some Understanding Of How The "Lone And Level" Sands Got Lone And Level In The First Place,

Oz

 

[Procifica]

Problem with Civ3 is units can't dismount?

Maybe an idea would be to set them up as more like raider-type units rather than a full-blown assault cavalry. Fast movement, light equip, poor defense/attack. Maybe toss in invisible with it or something.

And as far as wheeled units, couldn't they still use the railroad to move? (and alot of tanks are all-terrain type, especially more modern ones)

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Procifica
Problem with Civ3 is units can't dismount?

Neither can mechanized infantry. All that's required are reasonable A/D/M factors

Maybe an idea would be to set them up as more like raider-type units rather than a full-blown assault cavalry. Fast movement, light equip, poor defense/attack. Maybe toss in invisible with it or something.

Certainly a decent approach, and would certainly reflect the use of, e.g., Cossacks up through the Russian Civil War. For my hypothetical Maoists, I'd probably suggest infantry atttack values, lower defense, and higher movement.

And as far as wheeled units, couldn't they still use the railroad to move? (and alot of tanks are all-terrain type, especially more modern ones)

(1) Yes -- one use for the cavalry wuold be cutting the RRs and (2) we're talking about terrain that no tank commander in his right mind would try to fight through, like the Alps or Himalayas.

Abraxas,

Oz

 

[Procifica]

True, once the railroads were cut, the terrain would suck for wheeled or tank units.

I would see such a unit as a lighter version of the mech infantry, maybe on the lines of 10/8/3?

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Procifica

I would see such a unit as a lighter version of the mech infantry, maybe on the lines of 10/8/3?

Sounds about right -- believe me, I'll play around with it.

-Oz

 

[bhiita]

I don't think there's any reason to believe that, eventually someone will do a dismounting unit. and once it's made, it could be converted to meet the needs of other units that need to dismount. It's a concept that most would like to see.

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by bhiita
I don't think there's any reason to believe that, eventually someone will do a dismounting unit. and once it's made, it could be converted to meet the needs of other units that need to dismount. It's a concept that most would like to see.

Actually, I think munits are headed that way -- cantering away for movement; fidgeting in the saddle; kneeling to fire with your mount behind you, grazing contentedly away ...

-O.

 

[Procifica]

the graphic/animation for that would be real nice indeed.

 

[zulu9812]

I would like to add my support for a late 20th century cavalry unit