Unpopular Opinion Thread

[blitzkrieg1980]

I think you're way off, man. You're basically saying that every game, you perform 2-3 civic switches that are outside of a golden age. That sounds a bit off especially on higher levels when you need to react to a changing strategic landscape much faster than on lower levels. Additionally, you're basically saying that you would play SPI the same way you would play an ORG leader which, as I already said, means you don't know how to use SPI. It seems that you like to utilize the more passive bonus of ORG which is fine as that is your play style. However, if you were actively abusing SPI, you would quickly see what a boon it really is. You can do a dozen civic switches and be freed from having to coordinate GA to do the switches.

Just because you know a war declaration is on the way, doesn't mean you switch out immediately. I know I don't switch into war buildup mode as soon as I see the fist next to your worst enemy in the BUG modded scoreboard and I doubt you do. SPI lets you remain in your buildup mode until the DoW actually happens. Additionally, SPI often allows you to remain outside of the AI crosshairs altogether. You want me to switch to Vassalage, Mehmed? Sure, buddy, why not.

 

[bhavv]

SPI is crap when changing religions and swapping civics on a regular bases isn't needed at all. I never have any need to change my religion out of the major global one, or my civics out of my favorites / best ones for the maps. When AIs ask me to change them I refuse.

ORG saves you GPT on every single turn of the game. SPI benefits you for maybe 5% of all the turns in the game. Its a meaningless benefit.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Okay. I don't think that is a common belief but, hey, this is the Unpopular Opinion Thread. With SPI I'll switch civics many times. It basically allows you to enjoy the benefits of multiple civics in the same category (ie Bureaucracy and Nationalism) since you can switch in and out when using them (ie drafting and back to Bureau for econ). I really think the debate is dead at this point since you guys don't abuse SPI.

 

[bhavv]

I never manage to find a need to switch civics many times, hence SPI is below ORG and IMP for me.

 

[TalladegaKnight]

SPI is crap when changing religions and swapping civics on a regular bases isn't needed at all. I never have any need to change my religion out of the major global one, or my civics out of my favorites / best ones for the maps. When AIs ask me to change them I refuse.

ORG saves you GPT on every single turn of the game. SPI benefits you for maybe 5% of all the turns in the game. Its a meaningless benefit.

No way is SPI crap. The ability to switch between war civics to science civics is huge. Also running artists to pop borders with caste system is really handy. Spiritual allows you the flexibility to do a multitude of things.

During those turns of anarchy you are losing a massive amount of commerece to do whatever you wish with. ORG saves commerce every turn, SPI saves commerce for a few turns only, but it is your entire commerce output. Not to mention your production/GP outputs too.

 

[GreenofKnight45]

Remember, this is unpopular opinions. Let me know if I turn out to have a majority opinion
Here we go...
CRAP
Crossbowman (excluding Co-No-Bad-ass):I just use melee guys to attack. My 'Bows always die in attacks and I let Longbowmen defend my cities.
Environmentalism civic: Too expensive and the trees are gone by Ecology
Ironclads: Too slow and galley-like penalty hurts it too.
Castles and Walls: Sometimes I'll build them, but my wars are almost always with bullets.
Axemen rush: I need to build other things, I never get Bronze, and by the time I do have bronze, Swordsman are available. Axes are still good, but rushing them ain't my thing.
Montezuma:Never can aviod fighting him. At least I'm always more advanced
Toku: GIVE ME OPEN BORDERS IN SIDS NAME!!!
Great list coming soon.
_____________________________________________________________________
"I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God that has endowed us with strength and intellect would intend us to forgo their use" Galileo Galilei

 

[cseanny]

You're basically saying that every game, you perform 2-3 civic switches that are outside of a golden age.

Before the game is determined, an emphatic Yes. Virtually every single game. And exactly what do you think we're reacting to in the game at a higher level that makes you feel the need to switch civics all the time?

 

[GreenofKnight45]

I really don't switch that much.
Keep this thread focused! Go to civics section if you want to debate that.
Personal Opinion: Build a road on every possible square until Flight

 

[TheMulattoMaker]

Welcome to CFC, GreenofKnight45!

Let me know if I turn out to have a majority opinion

Well, okay...

Environmentalism civic: Too expensive and the trees are gone by Ecology

I haven't heard very many people defend Environmentalism, maybe I just haven't been paying attention. I'm not sure if I'm ever seriously used it.

Ironclads: Too slow and galley-like penalty hurts it too.

Pretty much every time I've heard Ironclads mentioned in this forum it was somebody saying they don't build them.

Castles and Walls: Sometimes I'll build them, but my wars are almost always with bullets.

Most people around here will tell you they don't build them simply because you should be killing the enemy in his land, not yours.

Montezuma:Never can aviod fighting him. At least I'm always more advanced

Everybody hates that stupid blankety-blank... but at least he's predictable.

Toku: GIVE ME OPEN BORDERS IN SIDS NAME!!!

This.

Crossbowman (excluding Co-No-Bad-ass):I just use melee guys to attack. My 'Bows always die in attacks and I let Longbowmen defend my cities.

Axemen rush: I need to build other things, I never get Bronze, and by the time I do have bronze, Swordsman are available. Axes are still good, but rushing them ain't my thing.

Okay, these two might actually be unpopular. Especially the part about Axe-rushing.

 

[cseanny]

Personal Opinion: Build a road on every possible square until Flight

. Um, I don't think I've reached flight in a game in the past 2 or 3 years.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I wonder if this opinion is unpopular:

I like seeing psychopath warmongers in my starts. It gives me focus. Kill or be killed. Alternately, if they are not sharing a border with me, they tend to make great attack dogs.

 

[GreenofKnight45]

TheMulattoMakerThanks! Glad to be welcomed. I actually have played II,III, IV and I'm trying to get V.

I like seeing psychopath warmongers in my starts. It gives me focus. Kill or be killed. Alternately, if they are not sharing a border with me, they tend to make great attack dogs.

Warmongers are better than science people, because I always are more advanced than them. Monty-Zilla's top grenadiers never see my modern armor coming.

Most people around here will tell you they don't build them simply because you should be killing the enemy in his land, not yours.

Until the last 5 months, I only fought wars in the gunpowder era(Now I'm learning the magic of macemen) I love later wars, s*** really goes down.
Nothing better than a City Garrison 3 meaning crap against a City Raider 5 Tank
_____________
"Yeah, well you're stupid" Every national debate since 2000

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Warmongers are better than science people, because I always are more advanced than them.

I prefer to have access to both

Another unpopular opinion(?): Civ5 = not worth it, gimme civ4

 

[TheMulattoMaker]

Another unpopular opinion(?): Civ5 = not worth it, gimme civ4

I'm pretty sure that's the most non-unpopular opinion in the Civ4 forum

 

[bhavv]

Hunting is the best starting tech. I get a scout, and can tech AH right away.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Hunting is the best starting tech. I get a scout, and can tech AH right away.

Agriculture also allows you to research AH right away, is more expensive than Hunting, is prerequisite for Pottery, and doesn't lead to a dead end tech that doesn't get used in 1/2 my games. Much rather start with AGRI. Scouts die more easily to animals and stand almost no chance against barbs. I guess that's why you posted it in the Unpopular Opinions thread!

 

[Windsor]

Army/navy strength has nothing to do with it. Neither of you read my question, or you replaced the word "Conquered" with 'dowed".
The AI is simply horrible at overseas invasions. Even if you are completely unprepared, have no navy, and are behind the AI and he lands 20 units in one of your cities, it's not a real threat. It's simply too hard to reinforce in a timely manner.

So... Bismarck just landed this stack:

36 rifles
15 cavalry
24 cannons

To me, that is a real threat - even without reinforcements However I expect him to be back with more in 10 turns or so.

(K-mod immortal)

 

[ringwraith18]

I only have a golden age maybe 1 in 20 games. It always seems like anything I use to get a golden age (great people, wonders) I'd rather use for other things.

 

[traius]

Well, the only wonder that can make a GA (without events) is the Taj, and that's all it can do. The taj is a great wonder, as it comes at time when you'd strongly consider changing civics (and if going dom, it'll be the last civic change you do). The best thinkg about a golden age is the civic switch. Factoring in the civic switch turn savings of a GA, and the extra hammers from a GA, the Taj is hammer neutral, and it is hammer neutral while taking hammers from an advanced city while letting newer/less advanced cities receive the hammers in exchange.

 

[elohssa]

ORG, like FIN, is best on watery maps. When you can't improve most tiles, a change from bad (2/0/2) to okay (2/0/3) is massive. If you happen to get the colossus, you can actually have pretty good tiles with FIN. The only problem is that colossus obsoletes with a critical tech for watery maps, but you still get a decent amount of time with it.
ORG getting half cost lighthouses on watery maps (critical for growth), and also the fact that watery maps make it hard to settle your cities "optimally-close" together meaning higher costs, makes both its reduced courthouse effect and lower civic cost effect more important than ever. Darius is a great leader on any watery map. Put him unrestricted on the dutch and crush deity with East indiamen no problem (that said, the dutch leader is also pretty damn good all on his own).

Surely the strength of the Dutch (on water maps) is the dike? It depends on the type of water map; but on archipelago + high sea levels, a dike can give crazy bonuses to overall production in your empire (double its affect in a golden age). It's hard to give a %, but (hypothetically) a 1 tile island's base hammers can increase 1100% with a dike. I remember seeing a production graph on an archipelago map and when I got steam-power it sky-rocketed massively - never seen that before or since.