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unrealistic battle results

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by mjd260, Feb 16, 2007.

  1. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,066
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    Look at it this way from a real life perspective. Even though a copper tipped wooden stick isn't going to do much damage to the armor of a tank eventually the tank crew will run out of fuel and ammo and wont be able to fight back and will end up starving to death:lol: but in the process of this loss a tank crew of 3 or 4 took out 10000 odd spearman.

    The other thing is that the combat in the game is based purely on numbers and what is in effect a roll of the dice and not a copper tipped stick bashing away at a couple of inchs of steel.

    If you look at the battle log it gives you a detailed rundown of the battle. And how each roll of the dice went. Here is a typical battle on noble level with no bonuses or promotions

    Code:
                 Battle  Tank   Spear  Tank     Spear     Tank  Spear
    Battle      Odds    Str     Str     HP/ hit   HP/ hit    Hits   Hits
    1             0.0     28.0    4.0       44         9          3       0
    2             0.0     28.0    4.0       44         9          3       0
    3             0.0     28.0    4.0       44         9          3       0
    4             0.0     28.0    4.0       44         9          3       1
    5             0.0     28.0    4.0       43         9          3       0 
    6             0.0     28.0    4.0       43         9          3       1
    7             0.0     28.0    4.0       42         9          3       0
    8             0.0     28.0    4.0       42         9          3       0
    9             0.0     28.0    4.0       42         9          3       1
    10            0.0     28.0    4.0       42         9          3       1
    11            0.0     28.0    4.0       41         9          3       1
    12            0.0     28.0    4.0       41         9          3       1
    13            0.3     28.0    4.0       40         9          3       1
    14            5.4     28.0    4.0       39         9          3       1
    15           22.9     28.0    4.0       38         9         2       3
    
    As you can see a tank only needs to hit a spear 3 times while a spear has to hit a tank 11 times and the tank has more chance of inflicting a hit.

    I ran it 10 times, the best was 7 spears to kill a tank, the worst 18. The average was 11.9.

    The other thing is if your playing in the game and go up against an inferior opponent it pays to build a few tanks with specific promotions for the civs units. When i ran 10 battle with tanks having a melee promotion the average was 16.8.

    I don't think any of these results are unrealistic and really why would you go and park a single tank next to a stack of 20 spears anyway and it simple enough to take a few extra turns to run through a civ by taking a break to heal.

    At the end of the day battles are a roll of the dice and there is always the chance to get unlucky and lose.
     
  2. Bushface

    Bushface Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,550
    Location:
    Torquay, England
    A Tank, or other unit with the Blitz promotion, will only be able to make multiple attacks if it wins the first one easily, without taking much damage: alas, I can't put an exact figure to how much, but I rather think the second-attack capability vanishes around 70HPs - so a tank damaged to this extent enters a fight without the ability to make two attacks.
    Damage caused by a successful hit is a function of the relative strengths of attacker and defender. At 50% odds, each will cause 20HP damage per hit, for example. The gretest damage I've seen was 54HP (Mech.Inf. with Combat 3 and City Raider 3, str. 41.6, vs. Trebuchet, str.1.14 and only 50HP left: a one-shot combat) and the lowest 7HP by a damaged Catapult being attacked by the same Mech.Inf.
    It still remains possible for a Spearman to kill a Tank, however, though if both are unpromoted and at full strength the odds of the Spearman winning are less than 1%, and he would cause at most 10HP damage per hit to the tank's 35 or so. The tank wins when it has made 3 hits, while the spear needs 10. Only if the tank is seriously damaged does the spear have a plausible chance of victory. But, and I repeat BUT, I have known cases where a weak defender has made a series of 5 or 6 consecutive hits on a strong attacker and made a successful defence although the odds of the attacker winning were 99% and higher.
     
  3. mjd260

    mjd260 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2002
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    PA
    How many experience levels can your units get? I recently got a couple up to a 5, and they're working their way to the 26XP needed, if I remember correctly, for the next promotion. Does it continue until you're able to select all promotions available?
     
  4. None_Existant

    None_Existant Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Messages:
    39
    more or less. The greatest lvled unit ive seen in these forums is a lvl 21 helicoptor xd. Of course depending ont he type of unit, you are limited to what promotions u can recieve (ex. tanks cant get navigation) . However, u can grant units promotions using world builder in single player mode, in which it is possible to give a unit all promotions. 'shrug'. I remember my warrior going around obliterating whole civs with... er... right.
     
  5. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,510
    Location:
    A state of unquenchable rage
    Not sure if anyone already mentioned this, but...

    You get a certain number of free wins against barbs (though its restricted to lower difficulty levels iirc), so you were guaranteed to win that fight if it was your first one.
     

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