Upgrading strategic units with only 1 resource

[Tomice]

I'm just watching Quill18's Norway part 6 (around 3:30)

AFAIK it's known by now that we need 2 sources of strategic resources to build strategic units anywhere and 1 to build them in cities with an encampment. They aren't used up, you just need the sources (which are way more rare than in civ5).

I'm very surprised that 1 source of iron is enough for him to upgrade warriors to swordsmen. Doesn't this make having either encampments or two iron sources mostly obsolete? Or are upgrade costs prohibitively high?

 

[Acken]

Upgrade costs are based on production cost difference. Its not too bad between warrior and swordman but archer to crossbow costs a ton as do chariot to knight I would expect.

I dont have a problem with the fact you need only 1 for upgrade since im not a huge fan of their rule to need 2 without an ecampment. Especially considering xbow units once again dominates anyway.

 

[Tomice]

Especially considering xbow units once again dominates anyway.

Maybe it just looks exaggerated because not every unit line has a medieval upgrade? Did you see them dominate knights and pikemen?

 

[moysturfurmer]

Slightly off topic, but if you ask me, if you can build Musketmen, you should have a choice between upgrading to Swordsmen for relatively cheap (provided you have the resource) or you should be able to upgrade them to Muskets for relatively expensive.

 

[Gintoki89]

Slightly off topic, but if you ask me, if you can build Musketmen, you should have a choice between upgrading to Swordsmen for relatively cheap (provided you have the resource) or you should be able to upgrade them to Muskets for relatively expensive.

Well, you could see that as being the case, as the relatively expensive route would be trading for Niter from another civ.

 

[Haggbart]

Slightly off topic, but if you ask me, if you can build Musketmen, you should have a choice between upgrading to Swordsmen for relatively cheap (provided you have the resource) or you should be able to upgrade them to Muskets for relatively expensive.

Yes didn't cIV give you the choice to upgrade to intermediate units?

 

[MadDjinn]

Yes didn't cIV give you the choice to upgrade to intermediate units?

no actual choice was given. You had to upgrade one step at a time.

So if you had warriors around, and had musketmen tech, but didn't have iron, you couldn't upgrade because the sword and longsword needed the iron.

 

[Acken]

Maybe it just looks exaggerated because not every unit line has a medieval upgrade? Did you see them dominate knights and pikemen?

Maybe. For sure considering the current level of the AI it's not going to be very meaningful. But I'm really skeptic from what we've seen. Archers melt warriors/spearmen for sure, crossbows probably have the same effect on their upgrades.

 

[Haggbart]

no actual choice was given. You had to upgrade one step at a time.

So if you had warriors around, and had musketmen tech, but didn't have iron, you couldn't upgrade because the sword and longsword needed the iron.

Wait, what? Longsword?

I was talking about cIV (4), I do think you're talking about CiV (5)

 

[elitetroops]

Yes didn't cIV give you the choice to upgrade to intermediate units?

In Civ IV you can't normally upgrade to intermediate units. Though sometimes there are multiple options for upgrade, which might end up at totally different units depending on which path you take. If you've teched further along one of the paths than the other, it might look like you can upgrade to intermediate units.

 

[Haggbart]

In Civ IV you can't normally upgrade to intermediate units. Though sometimes there are multiple options for upgrade, which might end up at totally different units depending on which path you take. If you've teched further along one of the paths than the other, it might look like you can upgrade to intermediate units.

Ah, yes that makes sense. I remember now. I think there was less of a distinction between unit types than CiV, and also quite a lot of crossover. Thanks!

 

[Atlas627]

It would make more sense as if you have 2 copies you can upgrade anywhere, but if only 1 then you have to move the unit into an encampment/harbor (wait, how does the resource thing work for harbors?!)

 

[MadDjinn]

Wait, what? Longsword?

I was talking about cIV (4), I do think you're talking about CiV (5)

oops. read that wrong.


edit:

It would make more sense as if you have 2 copies you can upgrade anywhere, but if only 1 then you have to move the unit into an encampment/harbor (wait, how does the resource thing work for harbors?!)

So like Oriental Empires, where you have to move a unit back to a city that has the infrastructure to build them. For healing in that case, but for civvi it would be for upgrades. And I'd suggest making it be 'in the cities culture borders' rather than directly on the encampment/harbour.

 

[Hajee]

I'm just watching Quill18's Norway part 6 (around 3:30)

AFAIK it's known by now that we need 2 sources of strategic resources to build strategic units anywhere and 1 to build them in cities with an encampment. They aren't used up, you just need the sources (which are way more rare than in civ5).

I'm very surprised that 1 source of iron is enough for him to upgrade warriors to swordsmen. Doesn't this make having either encampments or two iron sources mostly obsolete? Or are upgrade costs prohibitively high?

What would be really cool is if you have more of the resource the lower the cost of upgrading.

Right as I watch the LP, the upgrade cost is crazy high. But if you had 3 copies maybe the base cost is lowered by X% and each time you add n extra copy it keeps lowering it in a progressive rate

 

[Atlas627]

So like Oriental Empires, where you have to move a unit back to a city that has the infrastructure to build them. For healing in that case, but for civvi it would be for upgrades. And I'd suggest making it be 'in the cities culture borders' rather than directly on the encampment/harbour.

Yes, like that. However, I think culture borders will be hard to remember, and forcing it to be directly on the encampment makes it a bottleneck (which encourages you to just get a 2nd copy).