Uprisings

[Ifrit9]

Sometimes, when you capture an enemy capital its nation faces a civil war and as a consequence breaks up into two separate nations. Does anybody know the exact conditions that cause this to happen? Is it necessary for an enemy nation to conquer other civs in past?

PS. I wonder can such thing happen to player civ. I lose my capital once in 500 games or so .

 

[Comrade Aart]

PS. I wonder can such thing happen to player civ. I lose my capital once in 500 games or so .[/QUOTE]

Good question actually! I have no clue at all. I thought with civ2 it was possible.... not sure though.

 

[Tenochtitlan]

Yes, I've had that happen to me a really long time ago back in the 1990s when I was a noob. I've had the yellow civ, and some enemy invaded my capital and some of my furthest away cities turned white.

 

[Alex Johnson]

I don't know what the conditions are to cause it, but I know one thing. There must be one color unused: either playing with less than 8 civs or completely destroy at least one civ. The computer can only use one of the 8 colors and only a color that is unused on that turn in the game. It could be random, but I would expect it has to do with unhappiness. Too many unhappy people and they might go found their own government.

 

[GoldBerg]

...
I would expect it has to do with unhappiness. Too many unhappy people and they might go found their own government.

as far as we know it just has to do with the fall of a capital city of yours or another civ, sometimes/random - and if there IS an 'unused color' left.

 

[Ifrit9]

In my games it used to happen to those civs that occupied many originally foreing cities. But I'm not sure it's a necessary condition.

 

[Osvaldo Manso]

There must be one color unused: either playing with less than 8 civs or completely destroy at least one civ. The computer can only use one of the 8 colors and only a color that is unused on that turn in the game.

There are only 7 colours in the game: white (Romans or Russians), blue (French or Germans), light blue (Americans or Chinese), green (Babylonians or Zulus), pink (English or Greeks), brown (Indians or Mongols) and yellow (Aztecs or Egyptians). The rest of the information is correct. There must be an unused colour.

Besides the need of at least one colour available, there is another condition: the civilization must be relatively big. I don't know the exact number (6? 8?) but there must be a significant number of cities and maybe units for the civilization to split.

If you play at Chieftain level or turn on the "game advice" sometimes a "civilization note" appears (perhaps when you are at war) stating that «the Romans [for example] are a large and powerful civilization however rival forces threaten to split the empire into two »(something like this). You are even advised to capture their capital city in order to trigger a civil war.

Everytime that civilization note appeared to me and I succeeded in capturing their capital city, this "civilization split into two" thing occurred.

 

[Whelkman]

You missed red, but that's reserved for barbarians.

 

[Tenochtitlan]

Also, a split civ is split 2/5 for the rebels and 3/5 for the loyals, rebels take cities further from where the capital was. Really small civilizations cannot be split. I don't know what the threshold is though.

 

[trada]

Only when a civ has the most cities out of all the civs can it split.

 

[Osvaldo Manso]

You missed red, but that's reserved for barbarians.

You're right! There are indeed 8 colours, but red doesn't count for the purpose of this thread.

 

[Osvaldo Manso]

Only when a civ has the most cities out of all the civs can it split.

This is an interesting explanation, but are you sure? Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

Sounds like we need to turn on Cheat Mode and do some experimenting on all these theories

 

[Veni]

If a computer player's capitol is captured, but that player still has other cities left in its civilization, a civil war will break out if all of the folowing conditions exist:
* There is at least one civilization not in the game that can form a "rebellious" faction (i.e., the Babylonians have been wiped out, so the Zulus are waiting in the wings)
* There are greater than four cities remaining in the civilization that has just had its capitol captured
* The civilization that has just had its capitol captured is larger than your civilization

When a civil war occurs, the civilization that just lost its capitol will get a free palace, instantly creating a new capital city. The "rebel" civilization will also get a free Palace and the cities of the "old empire" will be divided between the two warring factions. (Wilson and Emrich, 1992:350-51)

Wilson, Johnny L. and Emrich, Alan.
1992. Sid Meier's Civilization or Rome on 640K a Day. Rocklin CA: Prima Publishing.

 

[Veni]

I hope the above helps.

I've had this book for a LONG time; I knew it would come in handy someday.

 

[Osvaldo Manso]

I hope the above helps.

I've had this book for a LONG time; I knew it would come in handy someday.

Thanks! That book is excellent! I've read it two times, but I didn't remember this particular part.

According to this (and if the book is totally correct), the "split thing" only applies to computer player's. So, I guess that the answer to the second question made in the post that started this thread is: no. This means that Tenochtitlan must be wrong when he said that it happened to his own civilization once.

Trada is also wrong when he said that only the civilization with the most cities will split. There's no such condition.

 

[Acadien]

Osvaldo, Veni,

Maybe what happened to Tenochtitlan is that he simply had some cities stolen from him? You don't see diplomats from other civ running around, but the game appears to have a system where computer civs can incite revolt and steal cities from you or other civs. It happenned twice in a game I am playing. The chineese stole a russian city, and an agyptian city. This makes for interesting geography in the end!

 

[Gundus]

I have a very vague memory from long ago about my empire splitting
in two parts when my capital fell. Can't say I'm 100% sure about this
though. Maybe someone would like to do some test runs and see if
this is actually possible or not.

 

[Veni]

Salut

I'm not willing to disclude the possibility that Tenochtitlan is correct per se. I can only claim that I have never experienced this first-hand over the last 15-ish years, or seen any documentation to this effect.

Knowing these conditions may be provide critical leverage when faced with an overwhelmingly advanced opponent. I'd call it the 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' Option: it's your only hope.

I would be curious, however, to know what the actual city/unit selection process is, once the event has been triggered. Is the corruption level involved? My guess would be that it runs similar to the 'Bribe City' process ...

Whether or not Tenochtitlan is correct, I believe Ifrit9 has the best policy: limit your capitol losses to one per 500 games!

 

[simonnomis]

If a computer player's capitol is captured, but that player still has other cities left in its civilization, a civil war will break out if all of the folowing conditions exist:
* There is at least one civilization not in the game that can form a "rebellious" faction (i.e., the Babylonians have been wiped out, so the Zulus are waiting in the wings)
* There are greater than four cities remaining in the civilization that has just had its capitol captured
* The civilization that has just had its capitol captured is larger than your civilization

When a civil war occurs, the civilization that just lost its capitol will get a free palace, instantly creating a new capital city. The "rebel" civilization will also get a free Palace and the cities of the "old empire" will be divided between the two warring factions. (Wilson and Emrich, 1992:350-51)

Wilson, Johnny L. and Emrich, Alan.
1992. Sid Meier's Civilization or Rome on 640K a Day. Rocklin CA: Prima Publishing.

Ah great! You have the book too. Very useful for some things isn't it?

That means you can also explain exactly how the city revolt occurs. As I don't have my book on hand but worked from memory in the other thread.

One thing the book doesn't mention, but which has become obvious about the revolution, is that if the civilisation is large, peripheral cities most distant from the conquered capital are the ones most likely to switch sides. For instance, cities on an entire isolated island have a good chance of turning entirely for the revolution (and the new civilisation that they become). But obviously this can leave them weak - as fringes are a 360degree phenomenon - leaving isolated cities easy pickings on the fringes.