Useful Flesh Golems

[doktarr]

There's a couple threads about awesome tricks with flesh golems, but it seems that most strategies build around FGs have a few critical flaws:

1. By the time you have a figure with channeling 3 and can make a flesh golem, you're usually in late game, when the relative impact of one powerful figure is usually much smaller.
2. Level 3 spells are an extremely valuable resource; most of the time you're better off spending your promotions of channeling 3 figures on spells that can be used repeatedly, rather than Graft Flesh.
3. Producing figures to add to the flesh golem is usually a bad investment compared with just using those figures directly.

So, how can these flaws be addressed? Taking them one at a time:

1. Get a figure with channeling 3 much earlier than usual.
2. Put the Body 3 promotion on a figure who won't be around long, or whose promotions can be reset.
3. Add useful promotions to the flesh golem without spending hammers to get them.

So, options on those fronts:

1. Gibbon and Corlindale.
   
   I often beeline Trade after getting the needed worker techs, since being the first civ with Trade allows you to take a big leap in techs. Deception is just a quick jump from there, even if you include the price of Way of the Wicked, and it opens up Nox Noctis (easily one of the top 5 wonders in the game IMO).
   
   Any Flesh Golem Gibbon makes will be an illusion, of course, but as long as you steer that unit well clear of any Empyrian civs, that's not necessarily a bad thing. A powerful illusionary golem can serve as the leading point of the spear to weaken a strong defender, and leave the kill (and the XP boon) to another figure.
   
   Fanaticism isn't quite as short a path, but if you're going for Aristocracy, it's only one more step, particularly given that you need Priesthood to solve the third Flesh Golem problem anyway. (The Mercurian Gate is another of my favorite wonders, too.)
   
   The next earliest figures with channeling 3 are Govannon and Hemah, who can be reached at Arcane Lore. But that's a longer path still, and it's an otherwise fairly useless tech. Govannon's promotions should all be level 1 spheres, anyway.
   
   
2. Gibbon and Corlindale, part 2. Not only are those two figures the earliest archmages you can get in the game, but they also both have a powerful spell that kills them. Gibbon also restricts you to Council of Esus while you have him, which is good for diplomacy but not much else, so it's nice to use him and get rid of him.
   
   Playing with the knowledge that you're going to eventually kill your archmage also allows you to invest promotions in the other level 3 spells that feel like a risk or a waste. The three I'm thinking of are Trust, Resurrect, and Domination. Obviously, if you have both Gibbon and Corlindale, then giving Gibbon Ressurrect is a no-brainer. Make a couple flesh golems, kill Corlindale, resurrect Corlindale with Gibbon, kill Gibbon, and have the new Corlindale proceed to different spheres of spells while you keep your two FGs.
   
   Again, Hemah and Govannon offer other, somewhat less attractive options. Neither of them can die in an especially useful way, but the other criteria fit. If you want to change religions away from OO, then you can give Hemah Body 3 along with other one-off spells before moving on. And the same trick I outline above with Gibbon and Corlindale can be done with Gibbon (or Hemah) and Govannon.
   
   
3. Tigers and Mutation. (And, much later, Krakens and Mutation.) Building warriors and scouts to bag promotions is wasteful. But if you leave some priests of leaves and one mage with chaos 2 alone with a flesh golem for 20 turns or so, you will probably end up with a Flesh Golem that has all the really useful mutations (the resists, blitz, light, strong, cannibalize, heroic strength/defense). If you manage to get a priest to combat 5, then your FG gets empower 5, too.
   
   You will probably want to throw one or two other figures in the FG at some point. (Mobility 2 is really nice if you didn't give the summoner Extension 2, and I'm partial to the commando/water walk combo... I like fast figures.) But just the mutation promotions above makes for a pretty fearsome package, and it comes without a big hammer cost.

 

[SergiuSS]

Flesh golems require great investment after you summon them but if you have a army of 8 let's say 22 strength whit a lot of promotions it guarantees you >99% victory chance on any combat makes conquering the map a walk in the park. It is joust another way to win the game, is not the fastest or the most efficient way but it's almost a 100% win I never failed to win a game after I made them but it requires commitment and a planned strategy to get the most out of it( remenber that krakens can be summoned by druids to).Spiritual trait will help a lot both 4 promotion and summoning
Now if you want to use one early you are better whit Gibbon's illusionary golem but only for defence and after you summon it you can switch to any religion you like ( you can add him the guardsman promotion to for obvious reasons )

 

[doktarr]

Flesh golems require great investment after you summon them but if you have a army of 8 let's say 22 strength whit a lot of promotions it guarantees you >99% victory chance on any combat makes conquering the map a walk in the park. It is joust another way to win the game, is not the fastest or the most efficient way but it's almost a 100% win I never failed to win a game after I made them but it requires commitment and a planned strategy to get the most out of it( remenber that krakens can be summoned by druids to).Spiritual trait will help a lot both 4 promotion and summoning

Sure, that works, but if you were playing against an equally talented human player on the opposite end of the map, and you tried to win with that strategy, you would almost surely get buried by stacks of vampires or Iron Golems or Firebows or Cultists and Stygian Guards or Pyre Zombies or Spectres or crusaders or Auric Ascended or... whatever, long before your unbeatable stack was built. It will work, but only in a situation where a whole bunch of other strategies will also work. Or, to put it another way, as I read somewhere on this forum, "if you're messing with Flesh Golems you should raise your difficulty level".

The strategies I'm putting here are an effort to get flesh golems at a point in the game where they can improve your chance of winning a game, as opposed to just being the way you choose to win the game when you're already in a winning position.

Now if you want to use one early you are better whit Gibbon's illusionary golem but only for defence

I disagree; the illusionary golem is still great on offense. It just can't wander around killing things alone. In a way, though, this is even better - you can reduce opponent's units to near-death, and then other figures - figures that get experience - can actually take the kills. Just keep that golem far, far away from any Empyrians.

and after you summon it you can switch to any religion you like

Yep, as I said. Get Gibbon, cast Graft Flesh (and trust and/or resurrect), have him impersonate a leader, then move on to a different religion.

(you can add him the guardsman promotion to for obvious reasons )

Yep, I like guardsman on the flesh golem, although you have to sacrifice an expensive figure to get it unless you're playing Bannor. If you convert or dominate a Royal Guard when you're not running Aristocracy, you can add it to Flesh Golem that turn before it leaves you.

 

[SergiuSS]

I don't have experience in MP but i guess the best usage of flesh golem ( at least the illusionary one) is to buy some turns, defending your cityes or a choke point, a human player will always find a way to counter it, else there are joust another expensive toys, and the civs that start whit body mana are good rushers to, maybe you will be more successful whit the Amurites they start whit body mana and maybe you plan to use firebows and need some turns 4 research and pump some units

 

[doktarr]

I don't have experience in MP

Oh, neither do I. I was just using multi-player as a way of saying "dealing with a rival civ as skilled as you are". My point is that you can get a really strong army much faster by just beelining your civ's best units and pumping them, than you can by trying to make a pack of highly-promoted flesh golems.

but i guess the best usage of flesh golem ( at least the illusionary one) is to buy some turns, defending your cityes or a choke point

An illusory flesh golem is a great defender against non-Empyrians, for sure, but I still also like using it as a way to break the strongest figures in your opponent's stack and set up big XP gains for your other figures.

a human player will always find a way to counter it, else there are joust another expensive toys, and the civs that start whit body mana are good rushers to, maybe you will be more successful whit the Amurites they start whit body mana and maybe you plan to use firebows and need some turns 4 research and pump some units

Starting with body mana is nice if you're shooting for an early flesh golem, for sure. Otherwise, you have to go for alteration. However, you need sorcery for mutation in order to cheaply bag all the mutation promotions, so you're going to be one step away anyway.

 

[SergiuSS]

Allright I figure a efficient way to use one early, I didn't tested it but it should work. Use gibbon's Illusionary flesh golem, add some promotions and hidden nationality the most important, then impersonate your neighbor, sacrifice all his units on your golem then when you switch back dow him and take his cityes, a strength 7 whit shock1 and some extra promotion should be enough early in the game
I realy don't feel like playing FFH sight now so I hope somebody will try )

 

[Kiech]

Not convinced that flesh golems are the best investment compared to other level 3 spells...but its quite fun leveling up one archmage to see what combinations you can do. After Natures Revolt, it gives all animals +2 heroic strength/defense - including your birds! I grafted a bird onto my golem, and not only did he get his +2/+2, but also +1 movement and could walk through mountains. Very nice on the Erebus map.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Useful link on using flesh golems: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=4881&pid=287046#pid287046