Magean
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2009
- Messages
- 474
Hi,
IMO, the worst thing with BNW's warmongering calculation, is the following : if you're Rome, or Greece, or any other civ with a strong incentive toward early offensive wars, then you'll take cities when warmongering penalty is at its highest.
Though this penalty is lower for small cities, it's higher when there are few cities on the map and when your opponent himself has few cities. Which means : at the beginning of the game. In overall, even taking a size 1 newly founded colony in the Ancient era may net you an very high amount of warmongering. Not talking about wiping out your closest neighbour.
So you'll be hated by everybody else, get DoW'd, and your diplomacy will be dead. And dead diplomacy means constant war. In the end, you'll be forced into a constant militaristic and domination-oriented game. After an early conquest war, there's no way to be reinstated into the circle of gentlemen leaders, no qualifying period of peace, should you simply sit upon your conquests and not go further.
And in the end, this warmongering calculation actually reduces the options available to the player. Aggressive game start means war for the rest of the game.
Later wars are not so punishing. You will profit from your war, take one or two good cities, pillage your opponent's soil, and extort a harsh peace treaty. But in overall the warmonger penalty will be lighter and you may then play more peacefully. That's why a civ with mid- or late-game aggressive UU can take advantage of it without being forced into domination.
In the early game however, the only way to really profit from your war is to make room for your future expansion, seize or burn cities, take a capital. That's what Rome's UU are made for. But cascading denunciations and wars are to be expected, and your diplomatic penalty will never really fade away.
A solution is to play on Continents map, so that you'll upset for only half of the world. But that's still too much, and being forced to play one map type is restrictive.
Is there any way to make use of those early UU without sparkling game-long hatred ? I'd really like to be able to simply sit on my conquests and after a while not be more hated than another civ of the same size and power. The current state of things is so restrictive for Rome, Greece and other early conquerors.
IMO, the worst thing with BNW's warmongering calculation, is the following : if you're Rome, or Greece, or any other civ with a strong incentive toward early offensive wars, then you'll take cities when warmongering penalty is at its highest.
Though this penalty is lower for small cities, it's higher when there are few cities on the map and when your opponent himself has few cities. Which means : at the beginning of the game. In overall, even taking a size 1 newly founded colony in the Ancient era may net you an very high amount of warmongering. Not talking about wiping out your closest neighbour.
So you'll be hated by everybody else, get DoW'd, and your diplomacy will be dead. And dead diplomacy means constant war. In the end, you'll be forced into a constant militaristic and domination-oriented game. After an early conquest war, there's no way to be reinstated into the circle of gentlemen leaders, no qualifying period of peace, should you simply sit upon your conquests and not go further.
And in the end, this warmongering calculation actually reduces the options available to the player. Aggressive game start means war for the rest of the game.
Later wars are not so punishing. You will profit from your war, take one or two good cities, pillage your opponent's soil, and extort a harsh peace treaty. But in overall the warmonger penalty will be lighter and you may then play more peacefully. That's why a civ with mid- or late-game aggressive UU can take advantage of it without being forced into domination.
In the early game however, the only way to really profit from your war is to make room for your future expansion, seize or burn cities, take a capital. That's what Rome's UU are made for. But cascading denunciations and wars are to be expected, and your diplomatic penalty will never really fade away.
A solution is to play on Continents map, so that you'll upset for only half of the world. But that's still too much, and being forced to play one map type is restrictive.
Is there any way to make use of those early UU without sparkling game-long hatred ? I'd really like to be able to simply sit on my conquests and after a while not be more hated than another civ of the same size and power. The current state of things is so restrictive for Rome, Greece and other early conquerors.
. Ah yes, wouldn't the real world be so much more pleasant if leaders acted this way? The brutal truth is "right" and "wrong" hardly ever come into the equation. They are only ever used as excuses, because at the end of the day, a nation wants to gain something! (Oil anyone?...)
