Using workers as front line engineers during war

[DrZ]

After the last patch every unit that pillages will heal 25HP, but combining that with a worker repairing the improvement, the unit can pillage twice each turn for a total of 50HP/turn. This works better if you chose liberty or have the pyramids, otherwise the repairing will not take place the same turn.

I was rarely using workers with my front line force but after seeing this now i use them more frequently while attacking as engineers.

What i use them for:
- build roads (especially over rivers for bridges or over rough terrain)
- repair improvements (for further pillaging).
- remove forests to make available blocked firing paths for my ranged units.
- remove marshes in places i want to defend without the penalty the marsh comes with.

My question was what do you people use them for, if you do?

Do you ever build forts?

How many do you bring? I used up to 4 or 5 (captured) making my army heal like crazy.

Is there anything else i am missing?

 

[Matthew.]

I never considered repairing improvements to re-pillage. I do, however, often bring workers to the front lines in war-heavy games. I will often build roads leading to key fighting areas, especially if there are a lot of hills/jungles/etc. Being able to get reinforcements to the front and over those obstacles as quickly as possible is key against unit spamming AI like Bismark, Washington, and Hiawatha.

I generally don't build forts.

 

[Meridian36]

To repair pillaged improvements, i don't use them. in some long-lasting wars wich need reinforcements, i use workers to use roads. Forts, I only build them playing rome with Legions, to defend some strategical positions before a war.

 

[FeiLing]

It's pretty imba (only on quick game speed though).

 

[Mystz0r]

I always bring workers to chop down the odd forrest obstructing LoS of my archers/catapults, and build roads if I plan to invade deep into enemy lines. I don't repair pillaged improvements though, that's borderline what I feel is "fair".

I use forts quite frequently, though. Both at choke points with mountains, but especially in long-term sieges. The AI never seems to be consitant with its town defense, and often fires mindlessly at my units in forts.

 

[The Pilgrim]

I always bring workers to chop down the odd forrest obstructing LoS of my archers/catapults, and build roads if I plan to invade deep into enemy lines. I don't repair pillaged improvements though, that's borderline what I feel is "fair".

This. I need to be very desperate to repair and repillage improvements.
BTW, not sure what the OP means by healing 50HP per turn. With Liberty, Pyramids and on quick speed? Otherwise you can't pillage the same improvement twice at one turn and moving to another tile consumes the second mp.
As for forts... If I'm playing OCC and really really have nothing else to improve I'll keep a worker or two around to build strategic roads and forts in 4th and 5th ring. Yes, they cost me money, but I don't want to spend even 1 turn on building workers at late stage of the game and rush buying them will be more expensive anyways.

 

[Crafty Bison]

The re-pillage is not something i would have ever thought of or will do now the OP has. However, it is news to me that you can repair tiles in enemy territory! Is that really possible?! I suppose I've never tried so shouldn't be too surprised.
Ya build roads and chop forests is fine tho, do that pretty regular.

 

[Dogmouth]

The re-pillage is not something i would have ever thought of or will do now the OP has. However, it is news to me that you can repair tiles in enemy territory! Is that really possible?! I suppose I've never tried so shouldn't be too surprised.
Ya build roads and chop forests is fine tho, do that pretty regular.

Yes, it's possible. I noticed this in vanilla and exploited it the other day in G&K. At quick, I would regard this strategy as very much an exploit. You can sit in enemy territory (a CS, for instance) indefinetely and reap possitive cash flow (more than maintenence) with a worker and a military unit. If you want, you can sit in range of a city to get XP and GG points at the same time. Again, it's very much an exploit. I can't imagine that this was intended.

 

[DrZ]

BTW, not sure what the OP means by healing 50HP per turn. With Liberty, Pyramids and on quick speed? Otherwise you can't pillage the same improvement twice at one turn and moving to another tile consumes the second mp.

I tried this on standard speed, with liberty and pyramids and you can repair in one turn. But indeed you don't have the movement points to move the worker to another tile.

I do consider repairing and re-pillaging an exploit though, i was just wondering if anybody uses this, like, being common knowledge and i'm not using it or something.

 

[Tabarnak]

Not really an exploit, you have to get Liberty, Pyramids, ton of workers that have nothing to do in your territory(so probably late warfare) and finally a good war tactic is to advance as fast as possile through ennemy territory. You don't want to stay idle and sit to heal and do nothing else.

For me it's more a handicap than anything else, at least in mp games where armies shuoldn't sit down eternally for many reasons.

Let down Pyramids and build more units instead. This will net you more advantages.

 

[DrZ]

ton of workers that have nothing to do in your territory(so probably late warfare)

Ok I clearly agree that I have to go as fast as I can trough the conquest. The workers i usually capture in enemy territory, on immortal or deity they have so many workers that i usually end up with a lot only from captures. Do you usually send them home after capture?

(also i found the pyramids to be a good wonder when i go liberty because i have so many cities and a lot of space to improve)

 

[Stolen Rutters]

I never built pyramids, even when I tried. I don't bother anymore. (Granted I only play Emperor SP. I'm not quite good enough for Deity/Immortal... Maybe I'll try it after I capture the city with the Pyramids in it. )

 

[chmilz]

I only do Pyramids in ICS games where I need lots of work done fast, without tons of workers eating up unit maintenance.

ICS is a hard enough juggle as it is, between cranking out settlers, defense, happiness, and improvements without killing happiness, going bankrupt, or pissing off every civ in the game who then band together and DOW simultaneously on 4 fronts.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Don't see a reason to waste precious early hammers on Pyramids when you can get it for free from someone else.

 

[Nelsonius]

Don't see a reason to waste precious early hammers on Pyramids when you can get it for free from someone else.

You pay the extra hammers for early GE points so it can be valuable. Unneeded workers also work great as suicide scouts in enemy territory and shields to prevent enemy melee units from damaging your units. I usually bring a couple in mid, late game wars.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Well, if while facing a war I have to choose between 2 unneeded workers and 2.5 needed composite bowmen, I'll go with the latter.

 

[DrZ]

Well, if while facing a war I have to choose between 2 unneeded workers and 2.5 needed composite bowmen, I'll go with the latter.

Yes clearly more army is better than a few workers. I was unclear in my original post. I was thinking about workers i capture that do the repairing and other stuff. I don't really bring workers with my army, unless I badly need a road to that location.

Again, I agree about the Pyramids, I never used to build it, and if I go a tradition start I still don't build them in a domination game. I got the idea seeing tommy_nt building them while playing a MP game and going Liberty, and find it to click quite nice (here is the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NJ8rSk7vqSc#t=418s) . Now i might not 'get it' why he did it, just find it to be a good idea.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

I see now! In an MP game, there won't necessarily be a computer player that builds that wonder before you can get it up.

In single player, since I am essentially beat to it virtually every game, even if I wanted the benefits of it, I don't consider the Pyramids except as a wonder to be captured (if I am lucky enough to have a close neighbor build it).

MP would open up more dynamic play, where you are competing against players who aren't following the AI formulas, you look for any way to push the combat odds in your favor. Fifty pillage HP per turn... nice one.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Yes, in MP there is no pushover AI you can steal wonders from (assuming you're not playing against complete noobs who are wonder spamming while being incapable of defending their precious wonders), so hard building them is pretty much the only way to get them in the first place. Besides, I can't see anything wrong with repillaging improvements in MP, since human players, unlike the AI, can and will use the same tactics you use, thus it's all fair and square.

 

[DrZ]

I am sorry to resurrect this thread, but after listening the latest Polycast discussing this thread i realized that nobody actually believed me that this was actually happening on standard speed, not quick.

To back this up i attach a save game on standard speed where i actually have The Pyramids and the worker policy in Liberty and you can see for yourself.

Go the the army that attacks france. You have a wounded knight there with a worker on it's tile. Pillage with the knight, repair with worker and pillage again the same turn. Check the game to verify it actually is on standard speed.