Vanilla Civs and Crazy Civs

Nixalo

Warlord
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
186
Most Civ fans create their preferred list of which Civ are included based of the the Civ's nation or location. This created the Eurocentrism argument seen elsewhere. I on the other hand had a preference which prioritized mechanic and gameplay. I did have a preference of location but having a good mix of playstyles was important.

Now as the vanilla instalment of the game, I expected there to be more "vanilla" civs in the game than any other type. Crazy out there civs would be a bit rare at first but by churned out heavily in DLC and expansion. It's best to get a lot of civs that prefer playing the normal way than have all crazy civs. But you get a few crazy civs for spice.


In fantasy or scifi strategy games, you typically start of with a few vanilla factions: the knightly human faction, the wizard human faction, the elves/pointyears, or various beast people. Then you get a very factions with heavy tweaks like an aquatic race or cyborgs. Then finally you get a few crazy ones like demons, undead, insects, or robots who play completely unlike the the others, often with mechanics added or removed.

How would I categorize the civs?
Vanilla civs are civilization who have mechanics that do not encourage any major change of where you build cities, how you build units and infrastructure, and how you conduct diplomacy. Vanilla civs have bonuses to things you would do anyway.

From there you break off to the civs that are mostly vanilla but have a twist. The Inbetweens.

Regional civs are vanilla civs but they have huge bonuses to terrain aspects which change where their early cities are and affect the tone of their game. These civs would found cities in places others won't dream to do so as early in the game. Think vanilla with fruits or nuts in it.
Then you have Focused civs. These civs have one or two uniques that too good to not exploit but don't not require too much of a change in the overall strategy. These civ tend to be based on timing a unique to have it not be wasted. An strong early UU encourages early war over simple settler expansion. Free buildings encourages wide play. Wonder bonuses make you want to stop at certain points for a wonder.

Then you have the Crazy civs. Civs with the hard push to strategies others cannot attempt. Or even more crazy, civ locked out of strategies or mechanics all together for huge bonuses elsewhere. These are often the hardmode civs. The civs the AI is bad at hence the basic strategy of the game doesn't work well with them. Or worse, the AI is guaranteed to fail and you expect them to be gone by Modern era because you can't play them normally.

Now with the civs announced, we can guess on how each civs work.

So which civs are the vanilla civs? Which ones are the crazy ones? And which ones are inbetween?

Do you think the proportion of vanilla, crazy, and inbetween civ is good in Civ VI? Which types should be included in the first run of DLC?
 
I would love a Venice like civ again (Maybe a Papal States that can't build settlers, but has HUGE bonuses for religious victory?)
 
Vanilla:
America (with culture win focus end game)
Germany
Rome (slight REX focus..although REX appears to be default)
China (with early wonder focus)
Sumer

Region:
Brazil
Egypt

Focus:
Scythia (horse rush)
France (wonders)
Japan (crowding, big cities, lots of districts)
Greece (great people, culture)
Aztec (luxury Rush)
Norway (naval raid)
England (late game conquest/expansion->cultural win)

Crazies:
Kongo
Arabia (get religion +faith through science)
Russia (ignore campus+theater)*weak crazy [either that or Regional]
Spain (religious units are used for combat boosts...not conversion...that's what Conquistadors are for)
India...maybe(depends on how easy manipulating religion levels is)
 
Vanilla:
America (with culture win focus end game)
Germany
Rome (slight REX focus..although REX appears to be default)
China (with early wonder focus)
Sumer

Region:
Brazil
Egypt

Focus:
Scythia (horse rush)
France (wonders)
Japan (crowding, big cities, lots of districts)
Greece (great people, culture)
Aztec (luxury Rush)
Norway (naval raid)
England (late game conquest/expansion->cultural win)

Crazies:
Kongo
Arabia (get religion +faith through science)
Russia (ignore campus+theater)*weak crazy [either that or Regional]
Spain (religious units are used for combat boosts...not conversion...that's what Conquistadors are for)
India...maybe(depends on how easy manipulating religion levels is)

Good list

I'd push England and France to Vanilla as even though both have focused, they don't require a huge change on your empires plan. It's the trouble of Renaissance civs. By the Renaissance, you should be done with settling spots and starting up infrastructure, wonders, or wars.
 
Only Kongo stands as Crazy to me. Other might receive bonuses to religion or other aspects of the game but still use the same basic rules (well, Arabia is borderline) but Kongo can't found, is the only civ to benefit from founder when they did not found and gets their apostles from theater squares. They don't follow the rules, they have their own.
 
Among the civs in the game, Aztec is one of the crazier ones. Warrior warrior warrior warrior warrior is a potentially viable early build -- you don't need builders, since you can take them, and you don't need settlers, since cities are much easier to take now that they can't fire back. Aztec opener is completely different from other civs. Just zerg rush warriors, take 2-4 cities out the gate, and continue to harass your enemies as long as you can to develop your cities. Wildly different early game from other civs.
 
I think Sumeria can also go on rampage by building many war carts and almost nothing else. I think they can easily take out cities and many barbarian camps for goody hut bonuses.
 
I think Sumeria can also go on rampage by building many war carts and almost nothing else. I think they can easily take out cities and many barbarian camps for goody hut bonuses.
They sorta can, but they still have to make builders, and can't just cap them as much as Aztec can. This is especially important because they have one of (if not the) best improvements in the early game. Kinda puts him in a hard place where he has to choose between development and conquest. But I think they will make a very nifty scout replacement, especially in open terrain.
 
Probably depends on what you consider "crazy". From the OPs reference to Fantasy/SciFi games where you can have undead/robots that don't even use food or other races that totally break the rules (and create new ones) i wouldn't say Aztecs are crazy. On lower difficulties, probably everybody can capture cities if they "zerg rush" their neighbor (of course a warrior UU will help, but is not required) while on higher difficulties i don't see even Aztecs being successful with only warriors. Everybody can capture workers (although not from every unit, so again the UU helps there rather than create new rules).

But then, in CiV, i think only Venice was "Crazy" as per the OPs definition. Captain Underpants would come close but not reach into this category unless perhaps playing on a "Terra" map.

What i think thought is that even "Vanilla" civs are much more diverse in their uniques then they were in CiV, which i think is great.
 
If you want "crazy" I guess you should try Endless Legend, where factions are very very different. Personally I prefer the Civ model more, and in that context I think Kongo is the one that stands out because of how it's cut of from a victory condition. But with regards to playstyle it might not differ so much from the others.

I guess there's a huge different if you're trying to play to Norway's strength compared to if you're trying to play to India's or Spain's strength, not necessarily because either are *crazy* but very different.
 
If you want "crazy" I guess you should try Endless Legend, where factions are very very different. Personally I prefer the Civ model more, and in that context I think Kongo is the one that stands out because of how it's cut of from a victory condition. But with regards to playstyle it might not differ so much from the others.
I don't want crazy civs (thought having some is a fun change), i was just pointing out that if i understood "crazy" correctly, it's more than just some bonuses to early rushes. I think Kongo will play different because you can't found but you can get the best of the religion you choose to spread in your cities, thought in doing this you have to be careful not to give victory to another civ. You have an entire district you'll never build which gives you more space for others. From what i understand you also won't have many faith for GP patronage so your GP game will also be different. That's a lot of differences.
I guess there's a huge different if you're trying to play to Norway's strength compared to if you're trying to play to India's or Spain's strength, not necessarily because either are *crazy* but very different.
Yes, and that's what i meant by "Vanilla" civs are much more diverse in their uniques then they were in CiV". They are not crazy because they still play by all the rules, but they look different enough to make the experience different and fresh each time :)
 
Probably depends on what you consider "crazy". From the OPs reference to Fantasy/SciFi games where you can have undead/robots that don't even use food or other races that totally break the rules (and create new ones) i wouldn't say Aztecs are crazy. On lower difficulties, probably everybody can capture cities if they "zerg rush" their neighbor (of course a warrior UU will help, but is not required) while on higher difficulties i don't see even Aztecs being successful with only warriors. Everybody can capture workers (although not from every unit, so again the UU helps there rather than create new rules).

But then, in CiV, i think only Venice was "Crazy" as per the OPs definition. Captain Underpants would come close but not reach into this category unless perhaps playing on a "Terra" map.

What i think thought is that even "Vanilla" civs are much more diverse in their uniques then they were in CiV, which i think is great.

Who's cpt. Underpants?
 
Kamehameha of Polynesia
Spoiler :

kamehameha_polynesian.jpg


Sorry, i'm way to used to everyone using his "nickname" :o
His ability to sail into the ocean right from the start could lead to unusual strategies, especially on "terra" map (this map puts everyone in one big continent with a smaller one beyond the ocean occupied only by CS). His ability allowed a risky start consisting of embarking your settler to try and settle the new world and expand there without competition while still being able to trade with everyone else thanks to your warrior staying in the old world. Of course your game would end prematurely if you disembark next to some barbarian camp.
 
If you want "crazy" I guess you should try Endless Legend, where factions are very very different. Personally I prefer the Civ model more, and in that context I think Kongo is the one that stands out because of how it's cut of from a victory condition. But with regards to playstyle it might not differ so much from the others.

I guess there's a huge different if you're trying to play to Norway's strength compared to if you're trying to play to India's or Spain's strength, not necessarily because either are *crazy* but very different.

I don't want every civ to be crazy. But out of 19 Civs, i expected 3 crazy civs. 1 in 6. Humans, Elves, Orcs, Other Elves, Other Humans, then Undead. Humans, Super Humans, Evil super Humans, Space Orcs, 2 Space Elves, then Space Insects.

I've been watching Marboir play Kongo and it seems that it would play very different. You have no Relgion game but your GP game is insane as you must create other districts.

Arabia could be a bit crazy as playing to it's strength is building a not optimal holy site and then waiting for your Prophet to spam madrasas and worship buildings.
 
I liked using advanced settings mod that allowed me to disable Venice, Polynesia and the Zulus. 3 civs that annoyed me either with their mechanics (Venice stealing your CS, Kamasutra always showing up and crapping out a city on our continent) or their attitude (Zulu spamming a bunch of cities no one can pronounce and then attacking until dead, no exceptions).
 
I liked using advanced settings mod that allowed me to disable Venice, Polynesia and the Zulus. 3 civs that annoyed me either with their mechanics (Venice stealing your CS, Kamasutra always showing up and crapping out a city on our continent) or their attitude (Zulu spamming a bunch of cities no one can pronounce and then attacking until dead, no exceptions).

What? You still left Shoshone (forward settle blob on everyone) and Iroquois (I heard you like cities) on?
 
Yeah, Venice was fun to play as (sometimes ...) but could be annoying to play against. If i'd spot them close to me, i'd DoW them, steal some workers and then try to ambush their 1 (or 2 on Deity) free merchants of Venice so they would stay what they were supposed to be : another City State. After that' i'd try to make peace and be their friends (easier as i didn't take any city from them) cause he was an easy guy to befriend and often had lots of gold to buy my luxuries (that were probably of little use to him with only 1 city) :D

Pocatello was a great source of workers with his borders far away from cities and his insistence on producing Pathfinders for a long time.:viking:
 
They sorta can, but they still have to make builders, and can't just cap them as much as Aztec can. This is especially important because they have one of (if not the) best improvements in the early game. Kinda puts him in a hard place where he has to choose between development and conquest. But I think they will make a very nifty scout replacement, especially in open terrain.

Not that hard I expect. Just build carts early, worry too much about development until you get a few raiding parties roaming the map. They'll pick up all kinds of goodies from huts and camps, and once districts start going down from the AI you can begin getting into easy free wars and raiding all their lands for the secondary resources you've lacked, more than making up for what you gave up to build the carts in the first place.
 
I don't want every civ to be crazy. But out of 19 Civs, i expected 3 crazy civs. 1 in 6. Humans, Elves, Orcs, Other Elves, Other Humans, then Undead. Humans, Super Humans, Evil super Humans, Space Orcs, 2 Space Elves, then Space Insects.

I've been watching Marboir play Kongo and it seems that it would play very different. You have no Relgion game but your GP game is insane as you must create other districts.

Arabia could be a bit crazy as playing to it's strength is building a not optimal holy site and then waiting for your Prophet to spam madrasas and worship buildings.


I don't know, I found Venice too much of a gimmick civ. Played them once, and pretty much saw them getting wiped out early in every deity game. I actually consider quite a few cVI civs to be quite crazy compared to cIV at least. If they won't work in MP and the AI can't handle them, I'm not really interested.

I guess I prefer smaller bonuses that are easier to balance, but I do think the amount of uniques in cVI is very exciting, rather than the amplitude of each bonus.
 
Back
Top Bottom