Vanilla nuclear weapon usage?

[Sinterklaas]

Is it possible to use nuclear weapons without suffering huge diplomatic damage? In Civ 3 nukes are totally useless because using them will completely undermine your diplomatic position and many other countries will go to war with you because of it. I know that it's partially realistic because it works like that in the real world too, but what purpose does it have to add nukes to a game when you can't really use them?

There should be some system in which you can ask "permission" from other countries to use nukes against a certain enemy without them getting angry with you or perhaps that other countries do get angry about you using nukes, but that it will wear off after some time. Another nice game aspect could be using nukes as a threat without actually using them (like during the cold war). In Civ 3 using nukes destroys the entire diplomatic aspect for the rest of the game so building these things is simply not worth it unless your are going for a conquest victory. So, anyone knows of a way (or perhaps a mod) to change this?

 

[The Peon]

I totally agree with you , but unfortunately don't know of any means of changing that. I'm playing c3c , but the results are the same. the only time I ever used them was just after winning a domination game and hitting the "play a few more turns " option just to see what would happen. The thing that irks me the most about it isn't the diplomatic hit , it's the fact that civ's that couldn't build paper airplanes or assemble tinkertoys properly can suddenly strike back with equal results I guess Sid is a big fan of the MAD doctrine.

 

[creamcheese]

Nukes are really just an end game unit that is designed to win wars. It's not like nukes ever get used in real life, they just sit as a silent threat. By the time you get nukes you should have either won or be on your way to winning, so they don't find much use except as prebuilds for spaceship parts.

As a side note, I think they affect your power rating and military advisor rating, which can make extorting things from the AI easier.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

I've had many a nuclear exchange in PTW, don't know what the differences are with vanilla. The only recommendations I can make are let them use the nukes first and wait till you have the Small Wonder for missile defense. It gets real nasty when the AIs start nuking each other, pollution redlines pretty quickly, have lots of workers.

Diplomacy, DIPLOMACY, I don't need no stinking Diplomacy!!!

 

[Sinterklaas]

You mean the AI actually uses nukes? I've never been attacked with nukes in Civ 3 and the AI never says it has nukes either, like it did in Civ 2 (where the AI did use nukes now and then).

As a side note, I think they affect your power rating and military advisor rating, which can make extorting things from the AI easier.

That would be nice, is there any evidence for that? In my games the enemy never seems to be impressed by nukes, not even when there are three subs with nuclear warheads surrounding their last puny 2-village island. They get freaked out by one conscript spearman next to one of their cities but an imminent nuclear holocaust is no cause for alarm... I remember when I was a little boy and the Sovjets had all these nukes pointed at us... That DID feel unconfortable so why isn't the AI impressed too?

 

[vmxa]

It is a certainity that the AI will use nukes. I have been nuked in my own games and games I finished for others. Most games will not get to that point. You can tell if they have nukes, but investigation of towns or a spy can see what units they have in the mil advisor.

Play some island Sid games on large maps and go for conquest, if you want to see the AI have nukes. They seldom use them first, but they will. Conquest on huge maps at higher levels, is a good chance the get ICBM action.

 

[Sinterklaas]

Hmm, I'll have to check that out then... I do hope the AI will get penalties for using them too though.

 

[vmxa]

I have seen all the other civs declare on the first one to drop nukes, but it does not appear to be 100%. I suspect it is like other things such as getting caught spying. They may not DOW, if you appear too strong.

 

[Sinterklaas]

Let me guess: if the AI nukes you and you retaliate with your own nukes, the other AI's still get angry with you for defending yourself?

 

[vmxa]

Not sure, but then I would surely be at war with all by that time anyway.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

Let me guess: if the AI nukes you and you retaliate with your own nukes, the other AI's still get angry with you for defending yourself?

Quite possible. I am currently going on the assumption that if they havn't used Nukes they will likely declare on someone for using them for the first time.

Keep trading for maps its usually armageddon when the AIs start going at each other.

 

[creamcheese]

I was under the impression you could retaliate freely if they nuke you without penalty (besides global warming). Only against the AI who nuked you though.

I've never actually gotten nuked.

 

[vmxa]

Not mentioned in AI attitutes, but why does it matter? You got nuked and have nukes and you are not going to use? Then why did you build them, they are not cheap. That late in the game the best I can expect is that everyone is going to be annoyed and probably furious, even if we have not been at war.

 

[Raliuven]

From past experience where this has happened to me, I can't say if the AI attitude suffered because I responded (they all already hated me) but they did not DOW on me for lobbing a couple back.

Also, from the attacking point of view, I have lobbed nukes first (mostly just for fun at the end game) with mixed results. Certainly some AI DOW immediately. But the more you launch, the more the AIs get mad and eventually all will DOW, regardless of power levels. Current trade deals may make the difference if you are giving them something hard they don't want to lose, but it will not matter eventually.

Other factors that might stop a DOW is if they are currently your ally against the opponent you nuked. Never tried this.

One problem with the nukes waiting outside their 2 city empire is if you have busted your rep. If you have done that, it pretty much doesn't matter if you could individually nuke every tile of their empire, they won't bend for anything. So if you are going to strong arm the AI, make sure you have a good rep, otherwise they'll stop coughing up the good stuff.