Vassals and Cultural Borders

[AxisOfAllies]

I've done some thread searching for this issue but come up empty - apologies if this has already been addressed somewhere else.

In the past I've noticed when vassaling another civ (specifically, capitulation vassaling) that the cultural borders in cities that I've recently captured from that civ seem more "resilient". By "resilient" I mean that my cultural borders around the city tile go up immediately after the city comes out of revolt, and I have an easier time keeping those tiles under my control. The city does, however, still feel the vassal's cultural influence (i.e. there is still a chance to revolt, if the city is within a vassal city's tile radius).

I thought this might indicate that you receive a bonus of some sort to your city culture, or to the tile culture for tiles surrounding the city , against a vassal civ. But I'm unable to find any articles to confirm that there is a bonus, and if so to quantify it.

Does anyone know the answer to this?

There's some really detailed (and interesting) articles on culture mechanics, but none of them (that I've found, anyway) mention this effect. Maybe it was my imagination. Anyway, would appreciate any info/comments.

Thanks.

 

[Ghpstage]

Your cities can indeed still flip, its just that contested tiles are automatically given to a master of a vassal to work.

 

[AxisOfAllies]

Thanks! I was starting to think it was just my imagination.

 

[capnvonbaron]

Yeah that changed at some point. You are right, earlier versions of civIV allowed the vassal to pressure the life out of captured cities, but it changed in BtS or one of the patches, I can't remember. You essentially block the vassal's culture presence in the captured city's BFC, as well as all other contested tiles between your own cities and the vassal's. Its especially nice when capturing culture fiends who've been choking your own cities throughtout time (Zara, Louis, etc). Just whip culture buildings in the captured cities until the population is down to nothing and that'll pretty much subdue the uprisings.

 

[AxisOfAllies]

Its especially nice when capturing culture fiends who've been choking your own cities throughtout time (Zara, Louis, etc). Just whip culture buildings in the captured cities until the population is down to nothing and that'll pretty much subdue the uprisings.

I thought that when checking for revolts, the formula used the highest population the city had ever had, not the current population. Has this also changed in 3.19?

 

[Manco Capac]

Yeah that changed at some point. You are right, earlier versions of civIV allowed the vassal to pressure the life out of captured cities, but it changed in BtS or one of the patches, I can't remember. You essentially block the vassal's culture presence in the captured city's BFC, as well as all other contested tiles between your own cities and the vassal's. Its especially nice when capturing culture fiends who've been choking your own cities throughtout time (Zara, Louis, etc). Just whip culture buildings in the captured cities until the population is down to nothing and that'll pretty much subdue the uprisings.

I recall Warlord games I had when I had trouble with vassals. Tech trading was problematic too. In a nutshell, vassals were weaker than now.

The only bug triggered by recovering newly captured cities' BFCs is it might break the vassal pact if the gained tiles make the vassal goes lower than 50% of original lands. Happens rarely, but down to OCC AI are at risk if the latest city is next to the last city.
Anyways, who keeps OCC AI.

 

[kochman]

I've done some thread searching for this issue but come up empty - apologies if this has already been addressed somewhere else.

In the past I've noticed when vassaling another civ (specifically, capitulation vassaling) that the cultural borders in cities that I've recently captured from that civ seem more "resilient". By "resilient" I mean that my cultural borders around the city tile go up immediately after the city comes out of revolt, and I have an easier time keeping those tiles under my control. The city does, however, still feel the vassal's cultural influence (i.e. there is still a chance to revolt, if the city is within a vassal city's tile radius).

I thought this might indicate that you receive a bonus of some sort to your city culture, or to the tile culture for tiles surrounding the city , against a vassal civ. But I'm unable to find any articles to confirm that there is a bonus, and if so to quantify it.

Does anyone know the answer to this?

There's some really detailed (and interesting) articles on culture mechanics, but none of them (that I've found, anyway) mention this effect. Maybe it was my imagination. Anyway, would appreciate any info/comments.

Thanks.

Because they are your vassal, they bow to you in their pitiful subserviance. They allow you to work all the land in your BFC. It's the government's official policy in action.
However, the citizens may still revolt, because they don't like you. It is the people's unofficial policy in action.

 

[lindsay40k]

I was just about to ask about this. Hmm, I might not be quite so aggressive in capturing ALL the cities around a future Vassal's capital, Wonder cities, and other 'keepers'...

 

[Te_Wheki]

I hate when warring against a Civ with a powerful friend on the continent, that I can't take out of the equation with some sort of deal, and I take their capital - tipping past the point they will capitulate at, but they move their capital right next door (common as it's probably their second oldest city). Which creates the Russian Roulette game of vassal them now and have their former capital revolt constantly or capture/raze the new capital to try and force their capital away from the cities I've captured and risk them peace vassaling to their powerful friend.

 

[lindsay40k]

Hang on. I'm reading that to say that proximity to Homeland Capital affects likelihood of revolts. I thought revolts were solely a result of the culture percentages on the city tile itself?

 

[AxisOfAllies]

Hang on. I'm reading that to say that proximity to Homeland Capital affects likelihood of revolts. I thought revolts were solely a result of the culture percentages on the city tile itself?

I also thought that revolts where solely a result of cultural percentages.

Your cities can indeed still flip, its just that contested tiles are automatically given to a master of a vassal to work.

Based on what I'm seeing in my current game, I think a slight clarification is needed - all contested titles in the big fact cross automatically go to the master. What I'm observing is that outside of the BFC, my vassal still retains control if they have a larger cultural influence.

 

[nfw]

Hang on. I'm reading that to say that proximity to Homeland Capital affects likelihood of revolts. I thought revolts were solely a result of the culture percentages on the city tile itself?

The tile the city is on has to be within the culture influence of another civ's city to revolt. So even if you have 1 culture in some city, but you razed every city around it within 6 tiles, it'll never revolt even garrisoned by a lone warrior.