Vpr3- 5CC Babylon

[viper275]

Discussed at the end of Vpr2, I decided to make another SG.
Civ: Babylon
Difficulty: Discussed in the thread, Demigod was mentioned, maybe Emperor, but open for debate. Looking for a challenge.
World: Standard, 5 billion, warm, arid
Barbarians: Roaming
Patch: C3C 1.22
Variant:

Five City Challenge (5CC): You may never have more than five cities. If at any point you have more than five cities, you break this variant.

Rules (LK rules with a couple minor differences):

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Rape - if you have to ask...

RoP Abuse that includes things such as irrigating all tiles with a city building wonders, denying resources with a RoP, putting a unit to block a land bridge, etc.

Scout resource denial - parking a scout on a resource, as the AI won't ask scouts to leave. The same scenario also applies to workers.

False Peace Treaties (must wait for the 20 years to end).

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

Resources disconnect / connect exploit - I consider most resource tactics fine. Delaying to hook a resource, trading it away etc is fine. The exploit is to do this every turn. Build a stack of horses, connect saltpeter, upgrade to cavalry, and disconnect.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.

Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another land mass.


Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.
2) Declaring war / demanding leave solely for the purpose of getting out of trade deals. This includes nonsense spying simply to force a war. Stealing techs is fine.
3) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.
4) Our trading reputation is golden - please respect it.
5) Complete your turn. It is frustrating to get a 1/2 completed turn.

Roster:
BigNHuge
Keiji
Admiral Kutzov (returned)
Kaiser Berger
viper275
bed head7

 

[Sir Clive]

Not ready for Emperor / Demigod yet but will be watching this one with interest . Good luck all !

 

[BigNHuge]

does it mean that if we have our 5 cities and we capture a city, and abandon it, we are in breach?

 

[bed_head7]

I am up for Emperor 5CC, or Monarch 5CC Defiant if we want to do that. But definitely not Demigod 5CC. My only Demigod attemt (COTM3) was practically a 5CC, but it was unintentional.

 

[viper275]

@Sir Clive: Glad you're interested. If bed_head7 doesn't join and we choose Emperor... I think you'd actually do well. Not trying to pressure you, though. EDIT: bed_head7 did join and it is at Emperor... wouldn't mind 6 people though if it's fine with everyone else.
@BigNHuge: I think the point is to raze rather than capture. If you get it through culture flip I think you have to rebuff the rebels, and I don't think you could accept cities in peace treaties.

Interesting question, though. I hope a _CC expert can answer it (whether you are allowed to, say, take a culture flipped city and immediately abandon it or immediately abandon cities you get from peace, from the description it sounds like you can't.)
EDIT: There's bed_head7! Emperor? No problem with me, that should be hard enough. I'll get a start coming soon.

 

[bed_head7]

I am certainly not an expert, but I can answer. There are two different 5CC variants. One, the one LKendter uses I believe, is that you are never allowed to have more than 5 cities at any point. The looser variant allows more cities during your turn, but you may never end a turn with more than 5. Basically, it is up to us, as both variants are played.

 

[Sir Clive]

@Sir Clive: Glad you're interested. If bed_head7 doesn't join and we choose Emperor... I think you'd actually do well. Not trying to pressure you, though. EDIT: bed_head7 did join and it is at Emperor... wouldn't mind 6 people though if it's fine with everyone else.

Thanks for your confidence viper but I am already in AK's game and I'm off to a wedding in Paris on Thursday and will be away for a few days . Also very busy at work - I know a 5CC shouldn't take as much time as a standard game but I don't still don't think I will have time unfortunately so I will just lurk for the time being . I may try to download the game at some stage , play a few turns and see how I get on compared with the team . Never played a 5CC - might try one as a SG when AKs game is finished.

 

[viper275]

@Sir Clive: Completely understand.
@bed_head7: I was aware of that, but what I was wondering is whether you can keep a city from diplomacy/culture flip and abandon it before the end of your turn? This is the first one, the one you said LKendter uses.
@all: I completely forgot: Continents 70% water okay?

 

[bed_head7]

I thought I answered that, maybe it was unclear. If we do the strict one, we can never have 6 cities for any reason at all. If we do the loose one, we can take a culture flip or a city in peace or even capture a city and then raze before the end of the turn.

 

[viper275]

That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure. I'll generate a start with 70% water and continents if that is fine with everybody else.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

70% and continents sounds good. As far as the temporary 6th city goes, I think the strict rule probably allows for you to have one temporarily if you plan to use that new city as one of your five. Of course, you must immediately abandon another city. We had a situation like this in LK72, and I'm sure we had six cities for an instant, because going and abandoning one of your cities and then having the assualt to capture a new fifth one fail would be cruel.

 

[viper275]

I'll generate some 70% continents starts then, although more comments would be nice (is Admiral Kutzov here?)
@Kaiser Berger: I was kind of thinking the opposite. Getting a city through, say, a peace deal during your turn and immediately abandoning it.

 

[bed_head7]

70% continents works for me.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

checking in. 70& continents works for me. make sure we get a good start

 

[viper275]

make sure we get a good start.

When you posted this I was tempted to generate a map with lots of luxuries and cows and then put us on a little desert island that can only hold our 5 cities. I resisted the temptation, though, and got this start:

Looked good to me, for the short time it'll pump out settlers it should do a good job of it. Some gold/hills in sight and a luxury.

BigNHuge is up, Admiral Kutzov on deck.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Nice start. We can probably found on the spot, but I wouldn't mind us moving the worker NW to see what is there, as we'll probably want to work the BG fairly quick anyway. Another option would be to move the worker to the wheat. Either is good.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

we need to be on a river. Since it will take at least two settler moves to accomplish that, lets move the settler W to the mountain and then ponder where to send the worker. Since this is 5CC, no need to hurry up and found the city to get the pump going.

 

[viper275]

I think the mountain square is a river. I'll check. Otherwise I know we'd grab it in expansion.
Edit: The mountain is a river. I vote to settle on the spot.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Ahhh, indeed, I totally forgot about getting us on a river. Indeed that is quite necessary. In addition to giving us free growth beyond size 6, the extra commerce will be crucial for research.

 

[BigNHuge]

nice start!
Please put me near bottom. Im pretty full right now. Thanks