Walls / Castle mechanic

[gavenkoa]

Seems defense bonuses of a Wall and a Castle don't stack: both are 50%.

Building a Wall in a city with 20% cultural defense increased defense to 50% instantly.
Building a Castle in a city bombarded to 18% increased defense to 36%.

So wall/castle is not about permanent 50% defense but about increasing cultural defense beyond low cultural levels + reduction of bombardment cultural def (8/16/12 for cata/treb/cannon).

Does reduction of bombardment cultural def stack together? Or the best of available is taken (50% wall, 25% castle) or total 75% is used?

How fast does city recover from bombardment to its cultural or 50% def level with a wall / a castle / without (per turn)?

It seems walls / castle should be built when AI reduced city def to 25% to recover it to 50% - this will delay final assault. I built walls in advance and seems it is sub-optimal...

Recent discussion: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/city-defense-discussion.689330/

 

[Lennier]

Building a castle on a city with 50% defense (from wall) increases defense to 100%. The bombarded case is a calculation along the lines of “city with original 50% defense now at 18%; how much proportionally would it be at if it started at 100%?”

 

[gavenkoa]

Building a castle on a city with 50% defense (from wall) increases defense to 100%.

Oh, I see.

I play sandbox city building style, so always under-protected (like pay 5-10g for extra units only at T100). In emergencies I'm thinking Walls are not that bad, but their completion date is a question.

I can invest 1H (1T) for immediate whip later in dangerous border city. But I cannot make conclusion when whip, If culture is 40% I'd delay construction, till AI's catas took effect, few Archers are better. But at 0%/20% seems big enough stacks jump into a city right away.

So the question if Walls/Castles make sense for emergencies, when to prepare pre-build, when to complete build and how to prioritize completion over yet another Archer.

 

[sampsa]

I play sandbox city building style, so always under-protected (like pay 5-10g for extra units only at T100).

I don't understand what that means. Why do you have so many units that you pay +5g? What do you mean under-protected? Are you playing some pangaea-type maps with lots of neighbors? Often preparing to get aggressive yourself is the right way in those cases.

You seem interested in the game and willing to learn, but to me it seems like you are always trying to solve the wrong problems.

 

[gavenkoa]

Why do you have so many units that you pay +5g?

+5g are unit maintenance cost (beyond 7-12 or whatever free), they are workers (~number of cities, which are ~7-8 as I'm land grabber), 2-5 fog busters, & Warrior in each city.

With Shaka nearby I'm always a target, with such weak total in game power count. That's why I call such empire under-protected. One Warrior against Shaaka's stack.

I'd say such unit selection is bare minimum to keep economy afloat (Workers amount to keep up with city growth, Warriors to +1 Happiness, forbusters to eliminate wandering Warriors/Archers/Axes).

If "we have enough on our hands right now", I start pumping defense. With implication that unit maintenance cost rising to bigger values, crippling early research rate.

 

[sampsa]

I checked two autosaves from T100 and I had 5 warriors in one (zero fog busters, one scout to scout). In another game I had 4 warriors and 4 immortals (to take down a barb city), a scout, GP and missionaries.

Thus to me it seems like you are not under-protected at all! You are building too many units and they crash your economy. I don't think you need 5 fog busters very often. You don't need to stop barbarians from spawning. If you are able to build an axe barbs should no longer be an issue. You don't always need a warrior in every city.

Now it's of course completely different if you are next to say Shaka. Then again, you kind of know what city he will attack - the closest one. 4 archers behind walls in a hilled city can hold a lot. Like you said, just put 1T into walls and whip it when you need it, it's not complicated at all.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

So the question if Walls/Castles make sense for emergencies, when to prepare pre-build, when to complete build and how to prioritize completion over yet another Archer.

I build walls in cities that I know will be attacked for sure. No "emergency" build.

Sometimes against barbarians. Don't laugh.

 

[gavenkoa]

Thus to me it seems like you are not under-protected at all! You are building too many units and they crash your economy.

I've got impression that players build tons of Axes or Horsed Archers, so don't worry about protection. And looking at Deity game streams players seek Archers against Barbs.

As in the early game that unit maintenance cost is quite painful I try to keep it a zero, I don't recall someone particular worries about it. People discuss "binary research" which saves you 1gpt, but no one talks about 5-10 unit maintenance cost per turn ))

 

[jorissimo]

I've got impression that players build tons of Axes or Horsed Archers, so don't worry about protection. And looking at Deity game streams players seek Archers against Barbs.

As in the early game that unit maintenance cost is quite painful I try to keep it a zero, I don't recall someone particular worries about it. People discuss "binary research" which saves you 1gpt, but no one talks about 5-10 unit maintenance cost per turn ))

I'm confused... going light on defense and managing defense through diplomacy has been a standing practice for like, decades. Nobody talks about it because it's considered common knowledge. I think you should really watch more videos or read Noble's club games.

 

[sampsa]

I've got impression that players build tons of Axes or Horsed Archers, so don't worry about protection. And looking at Deity game streams players seek Archers against Barbs.

As in the early game that unit maintenance cost is quite painful I try to keep it a zero, I don't recall someone particular worries about it. People discuss "binary research" which saves you 1gpt, but no one talks about 5-10 unit maintenance cost per turn ))

Players build units when they plan to attack, yes. On deity, archers, debatable. There is a great video about this that you should watch when you move up to deity. Below deity archers are rarely necessary against barbs.

It' not painful to keep at zero (or low) unit maintenance. It's a skill that you learn. I told you years ago that the best learning tool for you would be to watch Lain videos. So again: https://www.youtube.com/@lainciv4deity559/videos. Watch the first 70T or something. Take notes. Learn.