Warchiefs and Scoundrels - Barbarians Enhanced. Need coders and help.

[Craig_Sutter]

I may have to use that one when it's public...

 

[Wodhann]

I'd be up to help on creating some units, but I'm not really interested into making organic units, but anything mechanized or naval, I'd be happy to help. I'm thinking mainly for the Pirates tribes. I've got a few boats models I've done in the past, I'd be happy to help on that, supposing they are solid concepts and/or references for these units.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Thanks for offering your help, I really need coders though, otherwise this project will not even come to fruition. I won't ask for people to put their efforts into graphic assets if I don't even know if I will get people to do the basis of the mod.

 

[Nutty]

Don't worry; someone will use the units even if we don't.

Now if I can only find time to get some more work done on the Lua.

 

[Wodhann]

Nutty, what do you think of the terrorist camp idea, is it doable?

Also is there a way to code an ability that allows friendly units to walk to the same tile as that unit, and get a +1 movement if they do (but still have to move due to unit stacking)?

 

[Wodhann]

Here are the Clansman (temporary name, probably) - they look like spearman and have their icon, but they're supposed to be Pikemen replacement. My reasoning is barbarians should look "outdated" and more tribal looking compared to their civ counterparts, even if they're in equal footing.

 

[Nutty]

Depending on all the dynamics you have in mind, the terrorist camp is eminently do-able. I assume the major civs "don't negotiate with terrorists" so we can use the traditional barbarian player rather than trying to piggyback on the city state players. I think I can lift much of the code from the old version of Ea (i.e., Ea II).

I'm not sure what you have in mind re: the walking towards friendly units, but I don't relish the idea of getting into Lua pathfinding.

I thought the Barb Pikemen were going to be "Impalers."

EDIT: The new models look great. It doesn't fit into our plan (yet), but the Chaos Marauder might fit in somewhere. Perhaps the Assassin...

 

[Wodhann]

Depending on all the dynamics you have in mind, the terrorist camp is eminently do-able. I assume the major civs "don't negotiate with terrorists" so we can use the traditional barbarian player rather than trying to piggyback on the city state players. I think I can lift much of the code from the old version of Ea (i.e., Ea II).

That makes sense.

I'm not sure what you have in mind re: the walking towards friendly units, but I don't relish the idea of getting into Lua pathfinding.

I want a special ability for the tribeman (spearman) and clansman (pikeman) that flavors around them being the heart and soul of the barbarian tribes, so them being sort of a support unit. I might just rely on them being the "medics", since barbs don't normally regenerate, but I was thinking about options.

I thought the Barb Pikemen were going to be "Impalers."

I'm changing names as we go. I'm going to try to avoid relying on these kind of "violent" names as much as possible, even though I'll eventually have to (I'll probably use stuff like "marauders" and "slayers" somewhere).

EDIT: The new models look great. It doesn't fit into our plan (yet), but the Chaos Marauder might fit in somewhere. Perhaps the Assassin...

Thanks, about the chaos marauder, it is a bit below my quality threshold for civ5, but assassin might be useful for pirates.

 

[Nutty]

I might just rely on them being the "medics", since barbs don't normally regenerate

Hm... these barbs will be different, since they're city states. I like the idea that there'll be less of them, but that they'll regenerate like normal units. But we can force them to not regenerate if you want...

I'm going to try to avoid relying on these kind of "violent" names as much as possible

I quite liked "Impaler" (very evocative), but I can see the argument...

Thanks, about the chaos marauder, it is a bit below my quality threshold for civ5, but assassin might be useful for pirates.

Oh, I agree he'll need a reskin--I enjoy doing those--and the shape is interesting. I was thinking both units would make good mercenaries.

 

[Wodhann]

Hm... these barbs will be different, since they're city states. I like the idea that there'll be less of them, but that they'll regenerate like normal units. But we can force them to not regenerate if you want...

I don't know if barbarians should be too hard a priori. They're not supposed to be roflstompingly easy but I don't think they should be as hard as other player's units.

I think focus should go into making them a little bit smarter than mechanically stronger. I do want them to be a threat in other ways though.


By the way, what about this ability:

Abductor - This unit gets a +% strength bonus when a captive (worker, settler) is in the same tile.

 

[Nutty]

We can always tweak the heal rate and overall strength to compensate, but I don't know how that'd balance out either. I'm not sure how we'd accomplish "smarter" barbs since the regular AI units are so dumb!

That version of the Abductor is much easier. Should the captive try to stay with its abductor?

By the way, you currently have two units that are Composite Bowman replacements...

 

[Wodhann]

I'm not sure how we'd accomplish "smarter" barbs since the regular AI units are so dumb!

Aren't there mods that better the AI of units? It would be great if we could get someone experienced in AI to do some tweaks to barbarians too.

That version of the Abductor is much easier. Should the captive try to stay with its abductor?

The barbarians will be controlling the captive, so yeah, they will do what they want with it. But if possible maybe he should stay with units with abductor so that their bonus is relevant.

By the way, you currently have two units that are Composite Bowman replacements...

Fixed

 

[Nutty]

Aren't there mods that better the AI of units? It would be great if we could get someone experienced in AI to do some tweaks to barbarians too.

There's Smart AI, but it's a DLL mod.

 

[Wodhann]

I've been thinking about barbarians capturing citizens, and ransom. Maybe we should have "abductors" get a movement bonus (something like the scout, not a plain +1) instead of a fighting bonus. My reasoning for this is I'm starting to think that in a real game there wouldn't be enough time for a captive to reach the camp and become officially "kidnapped", so a ransom feature would never be used. EDIT: What the hell am I thinking. I forgot a captive can just walk on his on, without needing an escort.

Anyway, captives (aka citizens controlled by barbarians) would have to be coded in a way that once they are caught they will run back to the camp, and stay there, rather than running around willy-nilly having nothing to do.

Following the sentiment of my striked-out paragraph, maybe barbarian controlled citizens can have Scout movement?

I'm also considering shifting Abductor to "spear" type units like tribemen and clansmen, and have the warriors (brutes, swordsmen) just do the fighting.

 

[Krajzen]

Is Abductor really required? All barbarians can capture units

 

[Wodhann]

Is Abductor really required? All barbarians can capture units

Abductor is not supposed to give barbarians the ability to capture, but to give them a buff to capture. It's to make barbarians more of a constant threat to keep in mind while making the ransom feature relevant.

Also I want to make barbarian units more unique, just giving them normal strength/range stats is boring.

PS: I edited my last post.

 

[Nutty]

OK, so I spent some time on the SQL last week, and found some time to mess with the Lua the past couple of days, and now at least this project is no longer vaporware... Frankly, it's not a very auspicious start to the project, but it at least does something.

What (little) it does:

1. BarbariansEnhanced.sql: Sets up a bunch of database entries that--at the moment--don't do much.
2. BE_Init.lua: From the pool of unused minor players, it takes 7 for use as barbarians and 3 for use as pirates (the only distinction at the moment being the table from which it takes its name), sets them all as the barbarian team, and at permanent* war with everyone. It specifies an increasing number of turns to wait for each one to spawn.
3. BE_Main.lua: When the time period lapses, the city is spawned with a brute. The city is given an appropriate name, though all the other UI indicates the original minor name--except the popup...
4. BE_Popup.lua: Intercepts the city state popup in the same fashion as the compatible version of City States Leaders II. For now it only changes the topper (using the barb notification topper as a placeholder) and revises the name.

Bugs:

1. There's an odd--intermittent but fairly consistent--bug that occurs with failed database lookups to a database that I've added, e.g.:
   GameInfo.MinorCivBarbarians[tBarbarians.ID].Description
   ...resulting in an "attempt to index field '?' (a nil value)" that I'm still trying to chase down. The game database and the localization database both appear to be correct, so it's been frustrating me.
   [*]I haven't gotten SaveUtils working yet, so at this point the mod will be very confused if you try to save and reload the game.
   [*]*=Permanent War isn't very permanent, for some reason. The barbarians are only happy to make peace.

Todo:

1. Make something fun to play.

 

[whoward69]

though all the other UI indicates the original minor name

because the UI is showing the minor civ name not the city name - you'll need to rename the minor civs that you assign as barbs as part of the mod

 

[Wodhann]

Glad to know you're making progress. I would ask to test it (edit: nevermind, just saw the link) but from what you said it's probably very buggy and malformed - but it gave me a warm feeling inside to see a barbarian "city" there. If you manage to get rid of those pesky bugs, remember to get rid of the city borders, as it's supposed to be virtually the same as a camp.

Anyway, I have finished another model, the tribeman (spearman replacement). Sorry about the city borders, that was a hasty screenshot.

 

[COF]

Wow, Wodhann I am really impressed.
Is there something you can't do?

 

[Wodhann]

Wow, Wodhann I am really impressed.
Is there something you can't do?

I can't code, at all. My mind jumbles up just by looking at a code.

Thanks, man.