Warhammer fantasy units/graphics preview/development thread

[mrtn]

I'll try make the ass juicier (for you, mrtn ), but they really do have claws for hooves, so ...

I've googled pics, as you told us to, and I think it's rather cloven hooves (a la cow or goat) rather than actual claws (as you'd see on a cat). But then I've also seen horse hooves, so they can vary quite much...

 

[aaglo]

I've googled pics, as you told us to, and I think it's rather cloven hooves (a la cow or goat) rather than actual claws (as you'd see on a cat). But then I've also seen horse hooves, so they can vary quite much...

Propably there are many different conversions made by players. This pic is in the games workshop -site though. I see them as 3-fingered 'paws'...

 

[aaglo]

Hey, I also made some tests with a black knight, and this is what came out at first.

The sylvanian black knights don't have these armoring on the horse (is the word bardings?), but I stripped down the empire steam tank, and voilá - it becomes quite nicely that undead horse

The small 8-view of this unit is not in civ-scale (well, it might be, but I haven't done a proper size comparison).

Any thoughts?

 

[Mistfit]

It may not be noticable at civ scale but I think that the horses eye sockets are round. From what my bad eye sight can see I think you have them slitted. Also have you tried the horse with no barding at all just the skeleton? The rear skirt seems a bit weird on the East and West views. But this is comming from a half blind, color blind guy that couldn't program his way out of a wet paper sack so take my constructive critism with a very large grain of salt.

 

[Gomurr]

Nice job on the Centigors - I think they look perfect now.

My only reservations about your Black Knight is that I don't think it looks very eastern-european. Maybe a helm like the old German WWI helmets with a spike on the top would look good? Or possibly a horse-tail plumed helm, like in the GW image?

Also, the barding looks like a solid sheet of metal. Barding was usually made of heavy cloth, chainmail, or plate mail. Personally, I think some ragged scraps of old chain mail would look really good on the skeleton steed, but that could be a pain to do. But at the moment the barding looks like an awkward suit of armor draped over the horse. But then again, who am I to say how a bunch of dead soldiers would armor their dead horses?

 

[aaglo]

Maybe I could do some sort of eastern'european helm on that dead guy.

About the barding.
Look at this pic:

If that 'barding' is not of plate steel, then I don't know what is

My intention was to do a heavy cavalry unit, that's why I added the steel armours on the horse.

So, that armouring shouldn't be so awkward as you think

 

[Gomurr]

Touche
I'll still hold that plate steel barding is unusual and awkward, though. If the goal is heavy cavalry, perhaps the eastern cataphracts could serve as inspiration? Anyways, if you like the plate armor, I'd suggest at making it a bit smaller, since at present I think it looks oversized on the horse-skeleton. Of course, I could be alone in that opinion.

 

[mrtn]

Propably there are many different conversions made by players. This pic is in the games workshop -site though. I see them as 3-fingered 'paws'...

Well, maybe you can have it "stand on toe" more, if you see what I mean, now it looks like you treat them as feet, if you see the difference... And that makes it look like a bear or something instead of a faster/lighter goat/horse...
I hope you understand me.

 

[Kal-el]

check this out.

 

[Goldflash]

The above is a picture of me.

 

[aaglo]

... Anyways, if you like the plate armor, I'd suggest at making it a bit smaller, since at present I think it looks oversized on the horse-skeleton.

Well, duh! Of course it looks oversized, because there's no muscles & skin left on the horse

 

[Gomurr]

That would seem to be the obvious answer, but give me a little credit, I did take that into consideration. However, if you look at the images posted by you and Kal-el, you'll notice the armor in both cases doesn't go below the ankles of the rider, whereas in your model it goes below the rider's feet. Also, in both images, the armor an the back of the horse seems to curve in around its hips more - the curve is like that of an upsideown 'U'. On your present model, from the east and west directions, the barding in the back seems to jut out in a manner unlike the images shown - the curve is like that of an umbrella. Just because I would prefer another type of barding doesn't mean I'm not still trying to give constructive criticisms.

And about what mrtn is saying - most swift animals don't have heels like we do. Dogs, wolves, horses, cats, etc... all essentially run on their toes. The ball of the foot and toes forms the paw, and then there's a short portion of their leg that in humans would use as the arch of their foot and heel. Basically it makes for small feet and legs with three joints in them. In the case of the Centigor, it looks like they might run on three extended toes with hoof-claws at the end of each - but this is just based on the fact that none seem to be touching the ground with more than their toes. Having the Centigor's flat footed may have had something to do with my initial perception of their legs seeming too short. I'm not sure if the foot issue will matter that much, as I hadn't really noticed it, but mrtn certainly has.

 

[aaglo]

That would seem to be the obvious answer, but give me a little credit, I did take that into consideration. However, if you look at the images posted by you and Kal-el, you'll notice the armor in both cases doesn't go below the ankles of the rider, whereas in your model it goes below the rider's feet. Also, in both images, the armor an the back of the horse seems to curve in around its hips more - the curve is like that of an upsideown 'U'. On your present model, from the east and west directions, the barding in the back seems to jut out in a manner unlike the images shown - the curve is like that of an umbrella. Just because I would prefer another type of barding doesn't mean I'm not still trying to give constructive criticisms.

Okay, I give you a little credit
And I admit that the armouring is considerably larger than what it is in those images posted. The umbarella effect is true, eventhough caused by variable scaling (in x, y and z -axis's) and poor placement of the rear armour. Do notice, that it was just a quickly gathered contraption, only to give some vague idea what I'm after. Also maybe the dark colouring of that made it look even worse than it really is

list of changes:
- different (plumed ) helmet for the rider
- different colouring on the horse armouring
- rescaled and moved a bit the armouring of the horse
- rider moved a bit further behind on the horseback
- the size & proportions are quite close to the civ3 horseman proportions

And about what mrtn is saying - most swift animals don't have heels like we do. Dogs, wolves, horses, cats, etc... all essentially run on their toes. The ball of the foot and toes forms the paw, and then there's a short portion of their leg that in humans would use as the arch of their foot and heel. Basically it makes for small feet and legs with three joints in them. In the case of the Centigor, it looks like they might run on three extended toes with hoof-claws at the end of each - but this is just based on the fact that none seem to be touching the ground with more than their toes. Having the Centigor's flat footed may have had something to do with my initial perception of their legs seeming too short. I'm not sure if the foot issue will matter that much, as I hadn't really noticed it, but mrtn certainly has.

Now I think I got what mrtn meant. Why on earth didn't he say that he should walk on his toes (all i heard was some faint mumbling about hooves ). I edited the Goat a bit, and noticed that it's legs were bent in all the wrong directions, so I changed those too.

list of changes:
- reworked legs
- longer goat-torso

See the attached image for further details on these two units.

 

[Lusikka755]

I think the Black Knight should have darker armour so he would look more evil. It's Black Knight, you know.

 

[aaglo]

The black knight has dark armour. The horse doesn't. And what's is it with people thinking 'the blacker the more evil' - they are two totally different things.

Besides, the black knight is only a name - it doesn't tell that it should be black in colour. Very much like dark elves aren't really dark. I think that in these cases the name describes more of the 'view on the world and other beings' rather than the colour of the clothing

...well, I'll see what I can do about the colouring

 

[Steel General]

I think they look great...

 

[Mistfit]

I agree the horse unit is superb! I already liked the other unit before you changed it.

 

[Lusikka755]

The black knight has dark armour. The horse doesn't. And what's is it with people thinking 'the blacker the more evil' - they are two totally different things.

Besides, the black knight is only a name - it doesn't tell that it should be black in colour. Very much like dark elves aren't really dark. I think that in these cases the name describes more of the 'view on the world and other beings' rather than the colour of the clothing

I didn't say it should be pitch black. I said darker. And darker unit just looks usually (note word usually so you don't have to start nitpick again ) more evil. Now I think the armour looks too... ummm... empireish.

 

[Gomurr]

I think they look pretty good. I'm not sure about the feet of the Centigor being an improvement, but I think they're what mrtn had been looking for. And as for the Black Knight's armor... well, I still think plate armor on a skeleton horse looks odd, but but the unit looks good as a whole. I like the new helmet too.

Originally posted by aaglo
Besides, the black knight is only a name - it doesn't tell that it should be black in colour. Very much like dark elves aren't really dark.

I'm not saying that you should darken the armor or not, personally I don't think it'll matter much either way. However, names in Warhammer are rather descriptive. Dark Elves, while pale skinned, do have dark hair, dark clothes, dark weapons and armor, etc... They aren't very subtle with the names in Warhammer - Bone Giants, Pegasus Knight, Greatswords, Silver Helms... pretty straightforward stuff. Though the White Lions of the High Elves don't really fit that scheme... not being lions and all...

But as for Black Knights reflecting on black barding... well, the models don't have barding. But the Knight's armor is black, and the Wight Lord's barding is dark dark grey... so maybe the name and the coloring are more related that you think.

 

[mrtn]

Welcome to mrtn's beauty salon!
We employ only the finest plastic surgeons, to remake you and your Centigor the way you, the customer, wants.

Bob the centigor is much happier now with his new, redesigned hind legs, allowing him to skip and jump better than ever before!