Warmongering: Hate vs. Fear

DeadDegas

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
1
"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." -Yoda

After watching several early access games where early warmongering was a thing I got to thinking about how one dimensional the warmonger hate system was in Civ V and largely still is in Civ VI. In Civ V all civ AIs despised war (except for the few civs that always went on the warpath themselves) to the point of skipping clear advantages and it felt flat. So far what I've seen in Civ VI warmonger hate is the same mechanic with only slight variations with the agenda system.

However, agendas are supposed to reflect a Civ's personality and define what they prefer in a given game. (Agendas seem to be more focused on having a standing military than actually using them.) But this doesn't create any realistic variety in how civs react to warmongering because of how static the base mechanic is. Instead of denouncing a larger more dangerous neighboring Civ the AI should consider the option of becoming friendly with that Civ while pushing it's own production into a prewar set up in case the friendship sours.

I'd like DLC or a mod that creates a warmonger fear mechanic in tandem to warmonger hate that directs the AI to change its focus to a defensive military state without denouncing a warmongering Civ. The effect could be created by generating the number from the hate mechanic without reductions from casus belli in relation to the potential for invasion. A Civ's fear could be found out through the espionage system to create a fuller picture of the state of inter-civ relations.

This way warmongering Civs will find that their neighbors are on to the threat they pose regardless of being denounced or their status of friendship. I've yet to see if denouncements in Civ VI are as near-permanent as they were in Civ V, but if they are anywhere close to it in Civ VI then there still needs to be more diversity in the diplomatic area of the game.
 
I would like to get two points across here, one agreeing with you and one almost disagreeing with you.

Point 1:
The game already has a system to prevent civs from unreasonably denouncing you or warring you simply because you are a warmonger, it's called "casus belli" (I'm sure you're familiar with it because you mentioned it). In Civ 6, it is going to be very important to take advantage of casus belli and playing the AI to prevent the AI's insatiable appetite for denouncing warmongers. Furthermore, Civ 5 did have a fear system. Whenever you built your first nuclear weapon, the "they fear our great might" diplomatic modifier occasionally popped up. Sure, it's not a perfect mechanic, and I like your idea much better, but we may see that come up again.

Point 2:
While that last point may seem harsh, don't take it the wrong way. I absolutely agree with you; however, as I'm sure you're aware, this "fear mechanic" should be very situational. The only real reason a civilization should buddy up with a warmonger or even go on the defensive is if they think they are in danger. Any civilization of equal or almost equal power to a warmonger should not be affected by any such fear mechanic; moreover, map location should also be taken into consideration.

All in all, I agree with you. I'm also sure that you are already aware of everything I just said. I simply wanted to point this out to those that may not have thought of it this way.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom