[GS] Warrior Monks

[Mercutio604]

Hi, first post.

I think I found out something new(?) about Warrior Monks I see no mention anywhere...
If its already known then skip to my question in the end please XD

I am sure people are familiar with Moksha's patron saint ability as well as Viktor's Embrasure.
Unfortunately you cant have both governor's train the monk to get +2.

oooor caaan you?

step 1: train a monk with embrasure bonus.( dont promote it)
step 2: train a monk with patron saint bonus.
combinie both into a corp (with the patron saint as the one left over - duno if this matters just how i did it) promote only once before step 3
step 3: train a monk again with patron saint bonus
combine the same way into an army with the patron saint as the left over then promote 2x.

3x promoted monks up to sweeping winds right out of army bootcamp.

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(ive tested above but i havent tested below but it should work as same principle)

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if you want cobra strike, you can use a moksha monk level off barb camp. promote once
combine into corp promote again
combine into army promote again
promote again.

cobra strike for 15 exp.

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do i need to explain what happens or do people get it?
basically you are triggering the "first promotion" from moksha when you combine into corps and armies...

so far i tested combining multiple moksha promotion buff monks but it doesn't seem to stack.

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Before people go snatching pebbles (achievement)
anyone have any idea how I can best take advantage of this?

 

[Planktonic]

Neat trick, but for it to work you've already got Mobilization, so already late in the game. Do WMs thus promoted offer any advantages to, say, faith-buying cuirassiers with Grandmasters Chapel?

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Neat trick, but for it to work you've already got Mobilization, so already late in the game. Do WMs thus promoted offer any advantages to, say, faith-buying cuirassiers with Grandmasters Chapel?

My thoughts exactly.
The problem with monks is that they have a very short window until they are obsolete (even when considering their promotions), and the trick described (while clever!) just doesnt add much value at that point over faith buying actually good units.

 

[Mercutio604]

Hmm I was afraid of that, even with zulu nationalism felt fairly far away.

1 big difference to faith buying other units:
Those are tech unlocked while corps and armies are civic unlocked, theology to.

So I was hoping there was a civic rush strategy I could apply this to... or at least try with ^^

If I still want to toy with this, is my best bet just to build theatre squares for culture? is there more efficient ways?

 

[Planktonic]

You're going to want a lot of faith to buy these units, so you'll be building a lot of shrines and temples anyway. Try to get Choral Music as s founder belief to accumulate even more culture with every holy site build. But it can be very hard to get on Deity, much easier on other levels.

Include Kumasi, Nan Madol and Antananarivo in your games. I've had games where I never built a single Theater Square and still had massive culture from those city states.

Don't forget preserves/groves can be a good source of culture in high appeal tiles as well.

 

[UWHabs]

My thoughts exactly.
The problem with monks is that they have a very short window until they are obsolete (even when considering their promotions), and the trick described (while clever!) just doesnt add much value at that point over faith buying actually good units.

It's a shame they never updated Warrior Monks to have some sort of scaling ability to stay relevant. Either something like the Nihang where it just gets a few bonuses through the game, or a bonus like vampires or zombies. Like, Warrior Monks could actually be cool if they gained +5 combat strength for each holy site that follows the religion, or if they got +1 CS for each city following the religion. Because you really can't get enough faith to make a serious army of them early on, so by the time you can actually get enough to make a difference, they aren't strong enough to actually level up.

 

[Mercutio604]

... Choral Music ...

isn't this conflicting with warrior monks? both follower beliefs

I only have GS expansion at the moment so I don't have all you have listed unfortunately but good info for the future ^^ thanks

 

[Planktonic]

Gathering Storm games Continued…

Game|Civilization|Victory|Difficulty|Map|Notes
6otM76 |Kupe – Maori| Religion |Prince|Continents|Large Size, 10 Civs, 20 CS|
6otM77 |Gitarja – Indonesia| Science |Immortal|Archipelago|
6otM78 |Eleanor – England| Science |King|Continents and Islands|Large Size|
6otM79 |Trajan – Rome| Culture |Immortal|Inland Sea|
6otM80 |Gorgo – Greece| Domination |Prince|Continents and Islands|
6otM81 |Hojo Tokimune – Japan| Science |Deity|Inland Plates|
6otM82 |Frederick – Germany| Science |King|Continents|
6otM83 |Tomyris – Scythia| Religion |Immortal|Continents and Islands|
6otM84 |Pedro – Brazil| Religion |Prince|Continents and Islands|
6otM85 |Catherine – France| Culture |Deity|Splintered Fractal|
6otM86 |Poundmaker – Cree| Diplomacy |Prince|Continents|Every Civ must survive!|
6otM87 |Tamar – Georgia| Science |Immortal|Continents and Islands|
6otM88 |Lady Six Sky – Maya| Science |Prince|Continents|Huge Size, Apocalypse|
6otM89 |Simon Bolivar – Gran Columbia| Domination |Deity|Pangaea|Apocalypse|
6otM90 |Chandragupta – India| Domination |Emperor|Pangaea|Huge Size, Disaster Intensity - 0|
6otM91 |Pericles – Greece| Culture | Deity | Archipeligo | Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 3|
6otM92 |Shaka – Zulu| Domination | King | Continents |Large Size, Disaster Intensity - 2|
6otM93 | Menelik II – Ethiopia|Culture|Deity |Lakes |Standard Size, Resources: Abundant, Disaster Intensity - 1|
6otM94|Jayavarman VII – Khmer|Religion |Prince|Continents |Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 2|
6otM95|Cyrus – Persia|Religious |Immortal|Seven Seas|Standard Size, Resources: Sparse, Start Position: Legen...(wait for it)....dary, Disaster Intensity - 2, No Saladin|
6otM96|Basil II – Byzantium|Religion or Domination|Emperor|Small Continents |Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 2|
6otM97|Ambiorix – Gaul|Science|Immortal|Highland|Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 2, Dramatic Ages, Tech/Civic Shuffle|
6otM98|Lautaro – Mapuche|Culture or Diplomacy|Prince|Continents and Islands|Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 2, Tech/Civic Shuffle. If you choose Culture all major civs must be alive when you win.|
6otM99|Wilhelmina – Netherlands|Domination|Deity|Small Continents|Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 2|
6otM100|Menelik II – Ethiopia|Science or Religion|Prince |Continents |One City Challenge! Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 4|
6otM100B|Harald – Norway|Science|Deity|Terra High Seas|One City Challenge! Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 2|
6otM100A|Menelik II – Ethiopia|Science or Religion|Prince|Continents |One City Challenge - Replacement for 100, Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 4|
6otM101|Lady Six Sky - Maya|Score |Deity|Continents|Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 4, all modes enabled, so announcement for additional details|
6otMXMAS|Hammurabi – Babylon|Domination/ Culture/Dom/Rel|Prince/ Deity|Continents/Lakes|Two map options to choose from. Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 4/2|
6otM102|Jadwiga– Poland|Science|King|Continents|Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 2|
6otM103|Seondeok – Korea|Culture|Immortal|Lakes|Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 0, Tech/Civic shuffle.|
6otM104|Kublai Kahn - Mongolia|Culture|King|Continents|Standard Size, Disaster Intensity - 2|

Hey

I know not many 'pro gamers' play into the late game but I have twice encountered an issue where I've got an info-era government (one of those ones with lots of wildcard slots) and some event triggers all the wildcard policies to be unset. This is very annoying as you can imagine, but I can't find out what the trigger is. On one occasion I've had this happen multiple turns (utterly infuriating as you can imagine), but as I often keep modern-era governments till the end game it might happen much more frequently.

lol.

Also, apropos of the late game, have FIraxis changed it? The tech tree looks different.

Sure. I didn't keep the 89 save, still had the GOTM settings on, but here is Attempt #3 with a T77 CV. Played a little more careful, got 2 additional friends locked-in, and better religion perks.
I did not deviate much from original gameplay, only applied the rushing strategy for projects. Different CS quests, and did not find a 2nd Galley camp as previously, but did find Buenos Aeries - which was irrelevant to the win.

I think on this specific map, T6X is possible, skipping 2 Holy Sites, not taking out neighbors (however, stealing their Settlers) but it would require playing with Map knowledge, whereas this T7X is possible on first playthrough and thus a good benchmark when for HoF in future games. The challenge is only having access to 3 charge builders (not counting Liang's City).

isn't this conflicting with warrior monks? both follower beliefs

Oh, you're right- not possible. Unless you're Gandhi and can import the belief from another civ....

I never play c warrior monks so didn't think of that, sorry.

 

[fy00sh]

honestly that one wonder that grants 4 warrior monks ought to also give you the ability to purchase them for as long as you still have the wonder. plus yeah they ought to scale in some way. maybe they could repeat some upgrades, and could get a trickle of exp for each turn garrisoned on a holy site/faith-granting improvement, that could be cool

 

[Civ Chemist]

I have done a warrior monks only domination challange with the Zulu and it is possible just not a very good strategy. It's a constant race against time as once the AI gets too advanced it's basically impossible to conquer their cities.

I probably also only won that game because I had Kabul (double exp from attacking) in the game and won twice the world religion resolution (+10 CS also works on warrior monks).

The problem with warrior monks is that the opportunity cost to make them work is just too high. Additionally they don't work with great generals and can't use siege support units (battering rams/siege towers) so taking walled cities is a huge pain.

Anyway, to make warrior monks somewhat viable you need a good early faith economy and lots of early culture (even more important as the Zulu). This means holy sites/monuments first in all your cities, culture pantheon + world church as 2nd belief and Pingala opener (2 promotions) before going for Moksha's Patron Saint. Then use 1 apostle to get the crusade belief. Even though warrior monks can get a promotion to spread religion upon killing enemies you'll still want to get a few missionaries/apostles to accompany your army. It is also very important that you pillage everything that gives you faith and culture, you'll need every last bit of it. You can also declare war on city states just for pillaging and passively farming exp.

When you get to theology + Moksha's Patron Saint get as many warrior monks as possible and try to farm exp to get those important promotions. If you're fast enough taking out a neighbor or 2 shouldn't be too much of a problem especially if you get a few to their 2nd promotion and spread crusade. Then you'll get another power spike with mercenaries (as Zulu) and then nationalism to take on the next couple of civs. The real problems starts in the mid/late game when the AI gets to renaissance walls and you'll do little to no damage even with cobra stike warrior monk armies + crusade. The enemy units won't be a problem yet so you'll just have to overwhelm the cities with numbers. If you have enough you can cycle through your warrior monks, slowly chipping away at their cities and eventually conquering them. It's a race against time and in order to win you have to make the right decisions already very early on. You'll need to look at each of your neighbors and estimate how many warrior monks you're gonna need to conquer them (or at least the capital) and use the remaining army to start invading another civ. It's not uncommon to be at war with 2-3 or even 4 civs at the same time.

I think I won that game around T160 and it was already very very close. I ended the game with around 20 warrior monk armies and over half of them had at least the 4th (cobra strike) promotion. With crusade, world religion, oligarchy and wars of religion I reached a maximum of 115 CS.