"We cannot forget THEIR cruel oppression"

[morchuflex]

Hello.

An unpleasant surprise has just happenned to me: the Portugueses took one of my cities. Three turns later, I counter-attack and retake it. But the population is now only 1 instead of 3, the lone citizen is unhappy and when I click on him, I can read the infamous "We cannot forget your cruel oppression" sentence!
Looks like the Portugueses have whipped the city to rush units, and now **I** have to carry the burden of the consequences...

 

[Mr. Do]

Yeah, I'm sure there were riots in France when all their cities were liberated

 

[warpstorm]

Been that way since the beginning. Firaxis wants it to work that way.

 

[phirider]

"We cannot forget your cruel oppression" because of the HurryProduct, the Portugueses took your city and process HurryProduct there.

 

[microbe]

Indeed this doesn't make sense. It should remember WHO did the whip so that it doesn't add penalty to other CIVs. Much like how it does for war weariness - track it for everybody.

 

[phirider]

These is no "We cannot forget your cruel oppression" if these is no HurryProduct.I tested a lot.Maybe it is a bug.It does add penalty to other CIVs.

 

[warpstorm]

It may not make sense, but I had discussions with Soren and Mike long ago about this very topic and they want it to work the way it does. It's not a bug, but rather an intentional design decision that does not make real world sense.

 

[toh6wy]

It may not make sense, but I had discussions with Soren and Mike long ago about this very topic and they want it to work the way it does. It's not a bug, but rather an intentional design decision that does not make real world sense.

I don't get why they'd want to implement that instead. Is it that much more complicated to implement the more realistic method?

 

[Mr. Do]

They could at least have put a more neutral phrasing in so the citizens are unhappy about past oppression. It makes some sense...

 

[genghis_khev]

Even though its not a bug can it be treated as one!! Libearting a city that has been cruely oppressed should cause happy citizens not angry ones.

 

[warpstorm]

Liberating Iraq made it a happy cheerful place.

 

[King_MJS]

Liberating Iraq made it a happy cheerful place.

HA! Who ever said we 'liberated' Iraq.
Anyway thats beside the point. The Firaxis folk should have put their time into making this 'buggy-non-bug' more realistic.

 

[warpstorm]

I asked them about it and they said that when people are upset about life you taking over thier city isn't going to make them happy.

 

[genghis_khev]

I think it should depend on conquering / existing gov type and corruption. Citizens should be angry if a core democratic city is take by a communist gov (harsher regime, pop rush) but a anarchic or feudalistic city take by a democracy should be happy!

Although warpstorm's RW comment does raise questions!!

Its too late (and probably too big) to be patched but cities should have a "Neglect" factor based on not prox to capital / FP but no. of (civic?) buildings. A core city that constantly pumps out military units or workers / settlers would feel neglected where as an outer colony that was having tons of cash being poured into it (or many buildings built even by pop rush) would not (although the pop rush city would be unhappy about the oppression).

Cities that feel neglected are:
A) Happy when they are "liberated" (the new gov may ACTUALLY pay them some attention).
B) More prone to culture flips (same reason)
C) More prone to propaganda (They are paying JUST to get our attention......)
D) More prone to split and form a new Civ (if this feature is included in in Civ4)

The opposite would obviously apply to a non-neglected civ.

This factor should not be huge (at least not on non-Sid levels!) but it would be a nice addition and would actiually make the city advisor more useful that the "What are my cities building today?" advisor! (Does anyone actually pay her any attention??)

{edited for typing error}

 

[Iztvan]

This is easy. If a city is liberated, i.e. one of your cities is taken by the enemy and you take it back, past oppression shouldn't count. Heck, it should increase happiness - "it's good to be back"!

If you conquer enemy cities, even if they are some kind of dictatorship, they should view you as a conqueror, not a liberator. And they shouldn't imediately benefit from the increased economy of a republican/democratic conqueror.

If you liberate your allies cities, you should be obliged to return them (especialy if they contained his nationals) and take a big rep hit (and unhappiness) otherwise.

 

[genghis_khev]

If you liberate your allies cities, you should be obliged to return them (especialy if they contained his nationals) and take a big rep hit (and unhappiness) otherwise.

Definately YES!!!!

 

[Stapel]

Yeah, I'm sure there were riots in France when all their cities were liberated

Well, there indeed were some.... More a thing for the history forum I guess.

Like all bugs, it can easily be explained as a feature. Your people are simply upset, because your poor diplomacy or war preparation allowed the enemy enslave them, causing the death of two thirds.

 

[dgfred]

Well, there indeed were some.... More a thing for the history forum I guess.

Like all bugs, it can easily be explained as a feature. Your people are simply upset, because your poor diplomacy or war preparation allowed the enemy enslave them, causing the death of two thirds.

@Stapel- That is a great way to look at it, and it makes sense too.

 

[phirider]

It may not make sense, but I had discussions with Soren and Mike long ago about this very topic and they want it to work the way it does. It's not a bug, but rather an intentional design decision that does not make real world sense.

I wonder.Am I right or not?

 

[hanterp]

Maybe it is nonsense what I think, but I try to find an explanation for this.
What about this: Mochuflex, did you rule under despotism or communism and maybe that other civ was a monarchy?? People feel more happy in a monarchy.