welsh or british please?

[Aneurism]

Aneurism: your post was such garbage,. I only sifted through it., and even then it made me cringe.
It's not where a person is born, but where a person is brought up, I am stunned how you tried to dismiss that fact as trivial by simply putting it as "where he was born" alexander was born and brought up in britain, in a british enviroment, with a british education system filling his head with knowledge. Albert einsten was no more intelligent than the average person, according to studies of his brain it's only an average size. it's education , or creativity (how you use your brain) that affects how you invent.

Also, I notice how you put his probablity of intelligence down to "dumb luck" now you must be really dumb to say something like that. Sure there is an element of randomness. but just like any other genes a baby can be born with. The chances of intelligence, creativity, or even physical strength is drawn from the gene pool provided by his parents.
Randomness comes second to the available genes the fetus is drawing from.
Alexanders parents was both british/scottish.

furthermore for anyone else thinking they can just poach an inventor who was born here and educated here. I am british, and its possible that i might migrate in the future, but in my heart I will always be british. This is my home and this is where I was brought up, it made me the person I am today and that will never change. According to bell he felt the same way. and I bet even you lot trying to steal inventors would feel the same way. So shut up and stop talking about a dead inventor who we should honour, by calling him a candian/ american inventor, even though he himself considered himself scottish.
and show some respect.

Well if you had done more than 'sift through' my post you would have noticed that I covered everything you just said in 3a 'environmental impact of the birth country':

"3-a education system, social values, elements of inspiration that occur before the inventor leaves his home country"

and again if you actually read my post besides the very last comical line you would see how I rationally argue that the country (3-b) where the inventor does the inventing has potentially more environmental impact on the inventor:

"3-b access to knowledge for study, social values, a need for the invention, contemporaries, economic base to fund studies, materials required, manpower, elements of inspiration that occur at the time of invention"

Plus I even stated that 3a and 3b were often the same country anyways.

I don't dispute that there were a lot of inventions and inventors from Britain because lets face it, it was a great environment for learning at that time and to this day. Part of what made that environment good was the fact that great Britain was a vast empire, and had good access to knowledge and minds from around the world.

The whole point of my post was to rationally explain to everyone why the country where work is done has as much significance as the country where someone is born.

The fact that you think Scotts and British in general are somehow inherently better than everyone else is what is wrong with this world today: rampant fanboy nationalism.

PS The randomness that occurs is when someone is smarter than what is expected from the statistical average of his gene pool, the random genius could happen anywhere. Then it is up to his environment to actually recognize the genius and make something out of him.

How do you know what Bell thought of himself, in terms of national identidy? I dont really know either but the one factual tidbit I do know is that his grave states that he was a US citizen. What Bell thought of himself is irrelevant to my argument though, that the invention itself can be thought of coming from the country where the invention took place, no one on this thread is arguing where Bell was born.

Lastly pontypool, what in the hell do you wish me to "show some respect" towards???

 

[camsmith]

The average Englishman in the home he call his castle slips into his national costume, a shabby raincoat, patented by Chemist Charles Macintosh from Glasgow, Scotland.

En-route to his office he strides along the English lane, surfaced by John Macadam of Ayr, Scotland.

He drives an English car fitted with tyres invented by John Boyd Dunlop, Veterinary Surgeon of Dreghorn, Scotland.

At the office he receives the mail bearing adhesive stamps invented by John Chalmers, Bookseller and Printer of Dundee, Scotland.

During the day he uses the telephone invented by Alexander Graham Bell, born in Edinburgh, Scotland.

At home in the evening his daughter pedals her bicycle invented by Kirkpatrick Macmillan, Blacksmith of Thornhill, Dumfriesshire, Scotland.

He watches the news on television, an invention of John Logie Baird of Helensburgh, Scotland, and hears an item about the U.S. Navy founded by John Paul Jones of Kirkbean, Scotland.

Nowhere can an Englishman turn to escape the ingenuity of the Scots.
He has by now been reminded too much of Scotland and in desperation he picks up the Bible, only to find that the first man mentioned in the good book is a Scot, King James VI, who authorized its translation.

He could take to drink but the Scots make the best in the world.

He could take a rifle and end it all, but the breech-loading rifle was invented by Captain Patrick Ferguson of Pitfours, Scotland.

If he escaped death, he could find himself on an operating table injected with penicillin, discovered by Sir Alexander Fleming of Darvel, Scotland, and given chloroform, an anesthetic discovered by Sir James Young Simpson, Obstetrician and Gynecologist of Bathgate, Scotland.

Out of the anesthetic he would find no comfort in learning that he was as safe as the Bank of England founded by William Paterson of Dumfries, Scotland.

Perhaps his only remaining hope would be to get a transfusion of guid Scottish blood which would entitle him to ask:

"Wha's Like Us?"


Many good points in that.. and not an exhaustive list by any means. Albeit it very old.

As far as the "English" civ goes :

The main thing I object to is the use of British leaders for the English civ. By all means have England in the game - but for the love of god - use English leaders. Not Victoria, not Churchill. Have Elizabeth I, William I, Richard, whatever. But leave post Union leaders out. And amend the history in the civilopedia that confuses England with Britain as a whole. Even the use of redcoats as a UU is an error. There were just as many Scottish redcoat divisions. OK, that's fine to use as a UU but it's hardly a uniquely English thing.

And before people start spouting off about Culloden, etc.. It has to be pointed out that more Scots fought with the Government against Bonnie Prince Charlie at Culloden than fought for him - each one wearing a redcoat. Also, the Scots Guards are (were) the oldest regiment in the British Army.

It's also worth noting that pre-union, at the time of the English Civil War, that the Scots were regarded as the more militarily powerful (research if you disagree) due to Scots armies fighting in the Low Countries during the reformation. The outcome of the English Civil War was dependant on whichever side the Scots allied with. In the end, they sided with Cromwell and inflicted huge defeats on Charles' army.

A better idea would have been to have a British civilisation - using post Union monarchs and leaders and using British city names (The likes of Glasgow, known as the 2nd City of the Empire at its height - Belfast being another major port and shipbuilding centre.).

In terms of English impact on the world - no doubt it was physically huge - in terms of geography - but in the likes of education, religion, science and even the arts to an extent, the Scots have had an equally huge (if not greater) impact on civilisation as a whole.

 

[StarWorms]

Aneurism: I was going to just ignore your ignorant post for the sake of stopping this whole pointless argument but you keep persisting. The most important time in anyone's life is right at the beginning. From then on everything gets less and less important. By far the most important factors are the genes and the upbringing. Those will almost certainly be done in the country where (s)he was born. If you don't like nationalism, why do you play civ? - surely you should be playing as 1 world civ? Geez talk about jingostic

Nationalism is pride for your country not disrespect for another country, unlike racism and sexism. It's completely different.

 

[Aneurism]

Aneurism: I was going to just ignore your ignorant post for the sake of stopping this whole pointless argument but you keep persisting. The most important time in anyone's life is right at the beginning. From then on everything gets less and less important. By far the most important factors are the genes and the upbringing. Those will almost certainly be done in the country where (s)he was born. If you don't like nationalism, why do you play civ? - surely you should be playing as 1 world civ? Geez talk about jingostic

Nationalism is pride for your country not disrespect for another country, unlike racism and sexism. It's completely different.

Racism and sexism is when you discriminate based on race or sex, nationalism is when you discriminate by nation its that simple. One could argue that the KKK are just exibiting their white pride, or the Nazis where merely exibiting their German pride.

When I play civ, my goal is to unite the planet under my rule

 

[Civrules]

Moderator Action: There has been enough back and forth trolling.
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So please continue with on-topic discussion with respect toward each other.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889