We're screwed

[Matrix]

Posted in the UN forum by miccofl:
http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/site/mpm/viewtopic.php?t=285

By now everyone should be aware of the fact that all the teams in game 2 are at war with CFC or will be by turn’s end (if you weren’t, you are now.) By now CFC is trying to figure out what went so horribly wrong and the rest of you are wondering when I am going to quit rambling on and tell the story.

And what a story it is. It is the story of an ancient and powerful alliance. It is the story of artful diplomacy, equivocation and dissemblance. It is also a story of a credulous Ambassador so full of himself and his agenda that discretion and caution are thrown to the wind; so blinded by his arrogance, he is ignorant of his treachery, after all, he IS still loyal to his side (but a traitor nonetheless.)

Catagonia (CGN) and The Killer Wabbits (CDZ) have been working to their collective good for almost 3000 years. We have been engaging in commerce for nearly 2000 years and our militaries have been working and fighting together side by side for more than a thousand years. We have been and still are “gracious” to each other. Seven hundred years ago we realized that while our world was large, there were four of us and there was only room for three. The Killer Wabbits, being intrepid explorers, had risked an ocean voyage centuries before, to make contact and observe the other civilizations. Realizing that it is better to pick and choose than let situation dictate an outcome, we began a series of discussions and debates on with whom we would finish out time on this world. The discussions went on for over 200 years while we evaluated the pros and cons of each of the other two civilizations. The Fanaticans were found wanting and preparations were made for their elimination.

The Brazucans (C3B) were brought into the alliance and given the mission of drawing the Fanatican forces to the north leaving their coasts and heartlands essentially unguarded. In 130 AD two mighty armadas set sail for Fanatican waters. One hundred years later, with war a scant 40 years away, Catagonia makes formal contact with the Fanaticans.

A description of the events that followed that first meeting almost defies ones ability to describe it and as you should be able to tell by now, I am seldom at a loss for words. It might seem the best way would be to just put it all here, post the actual logs with a little commentary and let you experience it as we did. Unfortunately the compiled log is in excess of 40 pages and that is just not going to work. I will attach the file at the end of this post for anyone who wants to read it all. I would like to point out at this time that each and every correspondence along with any associated files were passed on to the alliance at the earliest opportunity following their conclusion.

Enter the Fanaticans (CFC). Rik (their turn player) was our first contact; one brief conversation was all we had with him but it set the tone for everything. It consisted mostly of the usual pleasantries and platitudes that accompany an initial meeting. However I planted the idea that our neighbors gave us cause for concern.

We are assigned an ambassador, the very same Provolution (in the log he is the one known as K) who was assigned to our alliance partner. I believe the word the Intelligence community uses to describe what happened next is “turned.” He offers luxury goods; I claim we do not need any. He offers techs; I claim it obsoletes our Gallic Swordsmen. He offers horses; I claim with Gallic Swords we don’t need them for some time. Surely you can see a pattern forming; he did not and pressed on. I never offered anything. I refused everything. I gave no information that could not be discovered through study and analysis of the current turn. I gave nothing; and yet I got so much in return. Detailed military information, force locations and composition, military strategies and tactics, etc, etc, etc… I am left in a state of euphoric shock as a few cleverly turned phrases turn the Ambassador and he doesn’t even realize it.

After disclosing the wealth of information gathered from that meeting to the alliance we agreed that it would be a shame and a waste to let such a valuable source of information go untapped. If nothing else it would give us all an entertaining something to read while we sailed our armadas ever closer. We were not disappointed; the good Ambassador was more than happy to continue. Along the way he managed to offend just about everyone’s sensibilities and at that point it became an imperative to continue it as long as possible, both to draw attention away from the impending attack and to see just how infamous a level his treachery would reach. Again, we were not disappointed.

Now the die is cast; the Armadas have discharged their lethal cargos. The combined military might of the alliance is set to strike the heart and head of Fanatica. The jig is up; the game now exposed and our source is gone. Such are the fortunes of war.

I invite you all to read the log; may you find it as entertaining as we did. And for what it is worth, thank you CFC. It has been a most enjoyable 10 days; it’s the most fun some of us have had with this game in a long time. We hope to see you in the Civ4 demo game.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

...
F***.
:Is squashed by censor:

Damm...

SaaM

 

[Hygro]

**** the the profanity filter and **** their devious results.

And Provolution, you did nothing wrong.

Can someone tell them that our military successes would make it easier to finish off c3b?

 

[Matrix]

Melifluous and DrAlimentado addressed me to watch my reaction. (Didn't satisfy them there.) They said we have about 40 mounted horsemen and 40 gallic swordmen on the shore of our core.

Here's the chat miccofl uploaded there...

 

[Matrix]

We can still settle on the one tile island!

 

[akots]

... And Provolution, you did nothing wrong. ...

Of course, nothing wrong to anyone.

We have lots of reserves and we can certainly harm their landing force severy. However, no way we can survive for a long time. Let's play the next turn and then see if we can play another.

 

[Provolution]

What can I say, I gave you most of the same logs, and this proves nothing.
I gave them absolutely nothing on our own force composition and so on. I told we got an idea what Brazuca had, that is all.

I gave the following to Catagonia:

Detailed military information.

I told them about the C3B military, and what we knew about them.

Force locations
I only told them about the DMZ, but they could see that from the galleys and be told so by C3B.

Force composition
I only told them what they already knew, Ancient Cavalry and so on

Military strategies
I told them we flipped between KD for the fleet supremacy and so on, other spurious information they could not use for any.

Tactics
Using cavalry against slow immortals, that is the most obvious thing in the world.

I suggest we now use our 11 galley fleet to break throug the Brazucans with 2 settlers and land on the one tile islands and settle these. Then we may see they will take out the C3B team, and we will barely make it to the finals.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

This is just a solid slap in the face ,but noone of us is to blame here.They are just seeking for a good excuse to gang up on us ,the fact that they want to do this is because they see us as a threat when taken into the final.

We are probably lost ,but we should make a stand ,and show that we are united in our team ,that internal unrest doesn't exist anymore at CFC.

We used our diplomatical canal's to the utmost ,and drew power from it ,it seems they are blaming us for being actually good at diplomacy ,for sure if they felt the actions of our diplomat were arrogant they could have adressed that to us ,yet they chose to backstab us in gang with task force's in position ,thus impliying prepperations and alliance coordination ,with other words they have been planning behind our back while being cordial to us for a long time ,to me this act seems way more treacherous and arrogant than employing an diplomat that collects information on it's target nation.
In any case we hold the moral upper ground ,and we should react to the UN ,not in a whining matter but firm in our right.

On the strategic level ,we still got boats and an isthmus ,either enemy forces land troops at C3B ground and must go trough the isthmus or they must land at our shores where we might have navy.
Since the Isthmus might be very effeciant at fending of any invasion force ,we should concentrate IMO on how we can defend ourselfs against naval invasions.

 

[Hygro]

like I said: Provolution, you've been great.

Settling a one tile island is a good plan.

Rik left for vacation with perfect timing.

 

[DaveShack]

I guess those alarm bells were real... The offer to trade maps for instance -- sure we stood to gain their knowledge of C3B but we didn't think much about what they would gain.

Wonder how long ago they "measured us and found us wanting..." It could have been as simple as whoever goes on the offensive will be thin if not totally undefended. It could have even been when we raised the spying issue.

I don't think our ambassadorial functions had much to do with it, unless it was seen as groveling which would make us appear weak. Or it could be that we appeared (or are) stronger than C3B and in a final you want the weaker opponent to survive.

Now, to spring into action and defend ourselves as best we can.

 

[akots]

... Settling a one tile island is a good plan. ...

I'm 99% sure the islands are blocked.

 

[akots]

I guess those alarm bells were real...

Sure, these bells are still ringing in my head.

... in a final you want the weaker opponent to survive.

That was their logic apparently.

Now, to spring into action and defend ourselves as best we can.

Little can be done if we would face the force that has been described.

 

[akots]

@Provolution: You were careless and naive.

@Emp: You were right in most of your assessements! Pity you were not allowed to do like you wanted. Mea culpa as well. But you were CoIA and could have done better with your line.

Overall: We should not have razed the Joker issue to the UN unless we were sure that C3B would have been eliminated due to violations of the rules. This actually spelled the doom of C3B in what their team became desperate while put in a rather hopeless situation. They had the only way out and they took it. Also, I should not have retired and Goonie should not have posted in the UN what he has posted. These three factors had a decisive contribution but this is just my humble opinion.

 

[Hygro]

Akots, I hope you said humble in satire.

I'm 99% sure the islands are blocked.

Point taken.

Let's blame start locations

 

[classical_hero]

I'd say bring it on. The other teams think that we are such are worry to them that to try and get rid of us, but they are obviously desperate. This means that we need to go for Military Tradition.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

[/Quote]Overall: We should not have razed the Joker issue to the UN unless we were sure that C3B would have been eliminated due to violations of the rules. This actually spelled the doom of C3B in what their team became desperate while put in a rather hopeless situation. They had the only way out and they took it. Also, I should not have retired and Goonie should not have posted in the UN what he has posted. These three factors had a decisive contribution but this is just my humble opinion.

All bull ,the reason why all these teams ganged on us was cold calculated strategic interrest.We are the lowest in Civ score ,compared to or rival C3B we are just more dangerous to take with them into the final.

We did not have the liberty to sit relaxed in a capital far from trouble's with 6 luxury's connected ,like CGN and GWT.They got it all and they have a perfect status quo in their homeland ,we however had a constant dangerous nation on our footstep who threatend us all but officially.
So our situation forced us to be more active in diplomacy and make leaps in trust towards those other nations ,we did what we could but allas all other teams stabbed us in the back royaly.

However What Joker did had to be adressed ,and it's a sad thing that yet C3B had made actual gains in relations towards other nations by portraying CFC as a nation that rather want to defeat their enemy's by such method's rather than a nation that want to adress such a henious spy act.

Our diplomats are bound to make mistake's once and awhile (and hopefully they learn from it) ,that said i said earlier we used diplomacy to the max ,and were in a hard position anyway ,so our diplomats had a very difficult task ahead of them.I figure disclosure of some of our information to another team was one of the only ways to obtain information about the them ,or to improve relations.

Even if Prorevolution leaked some information ,he did it with the objective to improve relations and gather ifomation himself most probably ,maybe not the wisest choice ,however theyr was few material our diplomats could use to convince nations as GWT and CGN to join our alliance ,yet the need for us to get them on our side was extremely high.

In any case ,we got far ,and that withought the rediculous and unbalanced home nation advantage's that nations like CGN and GWT seem to get (every ISDG )

NOW IMPORTANT:

Now if CGN is still so military inept as it was in ISDG1 ,and GWT by norm isolianist ,in fact if the tensions between these nations still exist ,form ISDG1 ,wich i wouldn't be surprized of ,then i make the calculation that what MIccoFL said about the invasion was acually bull**** ,however carrying a political significance.

See if CGN and GWt still distrust eachother ,wich i wouldn't be surprized of ,then i figure they won't risk sending many troops to our continent ,in addition of their logistical problems for that.
I doubt that they actually planned any invasion ,because i do not think any of these teams have the ship's availiable for one ,deffinatly not i think for a forcible landing army.

HOWEVER:

I get the impression that this decleration serve's nothing more atm than to scare us ,if my calculation is right that the support in actual troops from CGN and GWT to C3B will be virtually nothing ,then the decleration of war could act as a means to scare our team to not continue a campaign on C3B for now ,yet retreat to our home so that the other teams have the time to build up invasion forces for our nation.Yes i get the impression that they want to stall us.

In addition ,i must say that we are not defeated yet.However we might want to rampage on C3B as fast as possible.IF we can deal a very significant blow to C3B ,then it will become uninterresting for the other teams to continue support of C3B and rather would make it more interresting to support us ,because a weakened C3B would only stall the game's conclusion towards the final if getting continued support ,while then CFC could finish it fast.

Afcourse then speed is everything ,even if C3B doesnt get actuall millitary help from the other country's theyll probably still receive technoligy and finances ,both wich we will lack.
But then staying digged in our own nation doesn't seem wise neither ,it only give's time for a superior enemy to build up and prepare.

 

[classical_hero]

HOWEVER:

I get the impression that this decleration serve's nothing more atm than to scare us ,if my calculation is right that the support in actual troops from CGN and GWT to C3B will be virtually nothing ,then the decleration of war could act as a means to scare our team to not continue a campaign on C3B for now ,yet retreat to our home so that the other teams have the time to build up invasion forces for our nation.Yes i get the impression that they want to stall us.

In addition ,i must say that we are not defeated yet.However we might want to rampage on C3B as fast as possible.IF we can deal a very significant blow to C3B ,then it will become uninterresting for the other teams to continue support of C3B and rather would make it more interresting to support us ,because a weakened C3B would only stall the game's conclusion towards the final if getting continued support ,while then CFC could finish it fast.

Afcourse then speed is everything ,even if C3B doesnt get actuall millitary help from the other country's theyll probably still receive technoligy and finances ,both wich we will lack.
But then staying digged in our own nation doesn't seem wise neither ,it only give's time for a superior enemy to build up and prepare.

I believe that we should not pay too much attention, but not at all ignore the comments made at the UN. We can play a part in this also. We can send some misdirection to the other teams. If they want to play this, then we can play with fire also. To me this is an act of desparation and something that is trying to get us to become a disfunctional team. We are better than that and we have the defence that can counter all that they have to offer. If they want war, we will give them hell for it. We are not scared ot what is coming to us because this is just a ploy to get us worried. It will not work because we are stronger than that.

 

[Provolution]

The Duck of Flanders, they landed 100 units in our core, so we are basically done.
However, I agree with your analysis. Akots just want to clean his hands and make everyone not on his side look bad. However, I was not in office until AFTER, the decision to invade was done. My plans for early invasion of Brazuca was ridiculed and ignored, and Akots did not even try to come up with plan B or C or D, but was more interested in playing the saves to increase our potential, without leaving any long term plan for how to survive the game. We should have settled a one tiler long ago as well, in retrospect, that would have been a very strong bargaining chip for making Brazuca the main target. I am only responsible for what I did in the negotiations AFTER the invasion was launched some 20 turns back (they sailed out for us around turn 122-23 according to one CDZ member), which was before I was even elected.

We will see some revisionist history making in here to make me look like the real culprit and scapegoat, and I am glad the majority of the forum sees the truth for what it is and do not jump on an attempted lynch mob to make me the the main sinner.
Micco's statements was all personal, and not a result or product of the game itself, given the invasion launch turn 122-123. Planning and launching a 100 unit force require a lot of planning and coordination, and everyone knows that, add transport to that too. What I am NOT going to do, is to start a withhunt on who did what mistakes in order to sugarcoat a future entry into another team. I hope the other CFC members agree to this. Please also state your opinion in the UN forum linked by Matrix here, sign up if you did not do so, and tell the truth from your own platform, and not join in some political revisionism of history as a personal marketing ploy.

I will also ask for approval to post the chatlogs with Micco in the UN threads,
We need to rectify the CFC position here.

 

[RegentMan]

If their aim was to scare us, then they have succeeded with me. I do not think that they would lie to us (and the UN) about landing 80 units on our core.

Do we have enough units on iron island to block every coastal tile? Can we possibly ferry over enough units to make the game last to marines? Where will those 80 units go then? Hopefully to C3B.

I say the iron island, which I'd like to rename Resisting Isle, plan is more feasible right now. No doubt C3B has blocked the one tile islands. Right now we need to block an island. We have a better chance surviving with eight cities than one.

I would like to offer my services to the Fanatican military. Wherever I can be placed, I will go. May the flame of the light never falter.

 

[Cheetah]

TheDuck: It's CGN and CDZ, not GWT.

Take that into the calculation, they don't distrust each other, cause they have nothing but cooperation between them so far.

Anyway, this has been a good, though somewhat unfair game.
Now to make a final stand and complain about or starting location!