Whales & dolphins are so intelligent they deserve same rights as humans, say experts

[Ayn Rand]

From the independent and many other newspapers:

http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...ame-rights-as-humans-say-experts-7237448.html

Marine biologists and philosophers have joined forces to support a controversial declaration of rights for whales and dolphins on the grounds that their astonishing intelligence and emotional empathy puts them on a par with humans.

The declaration states:

The declaration of rights for cetaceans states that every individual dolphin, whale and porpoise has the right to life and liberty and that not only should they not be killed by hunting, but none should be kept in captivity or servitude or subject to cruel treatment. It states that no cetacean can be the property of any individual or government and calls for the legal protection of their natural environment and a ban on any activity that disrupts their "cultures", which could include underwater military sonar that disturbs their acoustic communications.

So, what is your opinion on this?

 

[rollo1066]

I've read at least one science fiction book where in the future they did have equal civil rights with humans.

 

[bhsup]

So, what is your opinion on this?

Quite simple. God disagrees.

Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Quite simple. God disagrees.

How is the biblical quote at odds with the declaration ? If we have been given dominion over them then maybe the true fulfillment of this edict has a lot in common with the declaration.

 

[Ayn Rand]

Quite simple. God disagrees.

Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Where does God tell us to kill or harm living creatures? Dominion means:

1. Control or the exercise of control; sovereignty
2. A territory or sphere of influence or control; a realm.

So if we are in charge, it is up to us how we treat living creatures and we can therefore do what we want with them - including protecting them and giving them rights.


Edit: Cross-post

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Thanks AR , that's what I meant just far better stated

 

[Crezth]

Quite simple. God disagrees.

Who is God?

 

[Joecoolyo]

They get the same rights as humans once they land on the moon.

Don't mind them being protected from abuse and such though, they're intelligent enough for that.

 

[bhsup]

I agree that we have an obligation to see to the general welfare of the planet, but having dominion over something pretty much precludes that something having equal rights to yours.

If I'm trapped somewhere with another human and we're gonna starve without food, and there is no food around, well...that's too bad, we starve and die. If I'm trapped with a dolphin, guess what. Yeah, sorry charlie, I'm eating dolphin burgers. I couldn't do that if they had EQUAL rights (such as to life) as humans.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

I agree that we have an obligation to see to the general welfare of the planet, but having dominion over something pretty much precludes that something having equal rights to yours.

If I'm trapped somewhere with another human and we're gonna starve without food, and there is no food around, well...that's too bad, we starve and die. If I'm trapped with a dolphin, guess what. Yeah, sorry charlie, I'm eating dolphin burgers. I couldn't do that if they had EQUAL rights (such as to life) as humans.

Do you have to be so damn reasonable all the time ? Can't you just let me be unequivicably right for once ?

 

[Crezth]

They get the same rights as humans once they land on the moon.

Humans didn't have rights until they landed on the moon?

 

[wilycoyote]

Once they evolve to the point where they can organize a society that can oppose humanity they should have equal rights. Until then they should have NO rights. Animals shouldn't be abused, but not because they have rights, but because it should be part of our society's moral fabric not to kill other "intelligent" living things for fun.

 

[Narz]

Quite simple. God disagrees.

Meh, one god in one book. Neptune would probably be down with rights for whales.

They get the same rights as humans once they land on the moon.

So do monkeys get rights then? They went to space before we did, IIRC.

Anyway, our humancentric ideals will be the extinction of us. The next step in progressive thinking (embarrassingly we're still mired in arguing about reproductive rights & the right for all people to marry ) is to give Nature rights. Not as some divine entity but because ultimately humans right to thrive & the right of the natural world to thrive are one.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Humans didn't have rights until they landed on the moon?

Nah, more like one of humanities' greatest achievements up to this point.

If dolphins' greatest achievement up to this point is the ability to play with air bubbles and recognize emotion, then I don't think we really compare intelligence-wise. Hence, they don't really deserve rights designated for humans.

So do monkeys get rights then? They went to space before we did, IIRC.

I don't recall them building the machine's though.

 

[bhsup]

Do you have to be so damn reasonable all the time ? Can't you just let me be unequivicably right for once ?

If you can prove to me that drop bears do not exist, I'll let you be right once

 

[Crezth]

Nah, more like one of humanities' greatest achievements up to this point.

If dolphins' greatest achievement up to this point is the ability to play with air bubbles, then I don't think we really compare intelligence-wise. Hence, they don't really deserve rights designated for humans.

I wasn't aware that achievement was the standard for intellect.

 

[Joecoolyo]

I wasn't aware that achievement was the standard for intellect.

Yup

Once they can show they can do stuff comparable to us, then they can have rights comparable to us.

 

[Narz]

Nah, more like one of humanities' greatest achievements up to this point.

Meh, what did it really accomplish? I can think of hundreds of more important achievements, including the invention of the bicycle.

If dolphins' greatest achievement up to this point is the ability to play with air bubbles and recognize emotion, then I don't think we really compare intelligence-wise. Hence, they don't really deserve rights designated for humans.

They've done far less harm than us though. Is achievement the measure of a being? Does some scientist who's built a bomb more worthy of rights than some old farmer who's achieved nothing but growing that same grub his ancestors did & being a nice guy in his community?

I don't recall them building the machine's though.

Again, I don't think achievement should be the basis of rights. Too close to might makes right for my task. It's similar to the justification for slavery : we're smart enough to build better weapons therefore we can enslave you therefore we deserve to.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Yup

Once they can show they can do stuff comparable to us, then they can have rights comparable to us.

Does this apply to less or dis abled humans aswell ?

 

[Dreadnought]

No wild animals, of any kind, deserve human rights.