What am I doing wrong here?

[Klasanov]

Okay, here's my situation. As Tokugawa of the Japanese, I took out India once, made peace after they re-spawned for their 100 gold, then took them again before the 20 turn limit was up, breaking the treaty.

Now, everyone has been pretty much polite with me, except the Germans, who were either cautious or annoyed (Bismarck's furious now since I attacked him) at me. Lately though, everyone has been getting quite annoyed at me, and I'm trying to figure out what I've been doing that is ticking them off.

The only thing I can imagine is they didn't like how I trampelled over Gandhi the second time soon after declaring peace. I've, like a smart leader, been nice to my neighbors the Chinese, respected the RoP's, exported a lot of resources, both strategic and luxury for a lot of gpt (I make a surplus of about 100 or so. Maybe 70-80 now), and have evenbought some.

I even waited until I could cancel the RoP I had with Germany before attacking (Although I took Frankfurt the same turn I cancelled the RoP. I've been great friends with the Chinese, we have an RoP, and I've been selling them spices for 15 gold per turn, and they're annoyed with me.

The Zulu, the Babylonians, the Persians, they are annoyed with me too. They won't sell tech to me, under the guise that "it can't be done" (Although I did coax China into giving me navigation and 100 for 7 german workers), but everyone is annoyed with me. They won't trade techs with me, and I have no idea why. I don't think I've done anything to tick them off at all.

The war in German land is stagnating. My samurai are at a push with their knights, although I've cut off one resource of horses and cut the roads into Berlin where another source of horses was nearby. I think I should try to capture or burn Berlin down to the ground so as to make sure they have no horses for their knights. Unless the germans haven't bothered to repair those roads. I guess it's more of a war of attrition now until they can only build swordsmen, which are a tad easier for my samurai.

Seriously, I had 23 samurai lined up for attack and siege of cities, now my core cities are churning out samurai to send there as the 23 original samurai were eradicated.

 

[IDSmoker]

I've noticed the same thing (my rep worsening worldwide for no apparent reason) in my current game.

Since I'm going for a Conquest win, I haven't really cared... though I would like to know why, since I may go for a Diplomatic win in my next game.

I was very careful in this game never to declare war on a civ I had an outstanding agreement with (whether diplomatic or economic). I never made either a RoP or a MPP. I destroyed every civ I went to war with. I didn't raze a single city until long after I had eliminated more than half the civs. I always canceled any ongoing peace treaties I had before going to war... Why was my name mud in the international community?

 

[sumthinelse]

Don't assume the AI behaves reasonably. I used to try to be nice, but I have decided it doesn't do any good. If they don't hate you, it probably means they aren't jealous because you are losing .

 

[Klasanov]

My guess is the conquest and such, they may view a warmonger as a threat.

But, if said warmonger is giving you luxuries for gold, and is (in some cases) giving you gold for luxuries, why care?

 

[ainwood]

The "can't be done" on the tech trades may be simply that you don't have enough money. Note that if you have broken any trades beforehand, (intentionally or not) then they may be reluctant to take GPT, and may only take lump-sums. I've paid upwards of 3000 / tech in late-game.

And the viscious circle is that if you don't trade regularly, then your reputation suffers. Try just trading your world-map every turn, even if its only for 1 gold. Try gifting things as well.

 

[Qitai]

Originally posted by Klasanov
Okay, here's my situation. As Tokugawa of the Japanese, I took out India once, made peace after they re-spawned for their 100 gold, then took them again before the 20 turn limit was up, breaking the treaty.

That is why. You broke a treaty with the Inidans. It does not matter to the AI who you broke the treaty with. All hates you for it.

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by Klasanov


I even waited until I could cancel the RoP I had with Germany before attacking (Although I took Frankfurt the same turn I cancelled the RoP.

This may also contribute to the problem. I've done the same thing before and received the old "sneak attack" reputation hit for the rest of the game. You may have to wait a turn after you cancel a RoP.

 

[TheNiceOne]

Klasanov, when you declared war against Germany, did you have units in their territory? My experience is that all the other civs get pissed at you if you declare the war while having units in enemy territory. Attacking without first declaring war, or choosing war when forced to leave is of course instances of this.

So to attack a nation without any reputation hit, you must first declare war, and then start moving units into enemy territory. This usually means that you don't get to take any cities the first turn, and the opponent gets time for defense, but if you want a spotless reputation, then you must do this.

Remember, even the Germans declared war against Poland before they entered Polish territory in '39.

 

[Maple]

You may have something that the AI wants, like a tech. In my current game I have been very honorable and kind to all of the civs, but a big troupe of them are annoyed with me because I have chivalry and they don't. I'm refusing to sell it to them because they don't have anything. (Not even gold) I was trying to coax the Romans into declaring war with me on the Zulu, and gave them Chivalry for free. They instanly went from Annoyed to Polite. After we declared war, they went to Gracious.

 

[Trinity]

How to get on everyone's sh*t list:

1. Wipe out one civilization just for breathing room. But only wipe out one.

2. Practice "flea market" trading. You provoke an attack. Take their resources, make peace, then sell the resource back to them.

3. Break MPPs if your pact partner is an idiot. i.e. actually declares war then waits to be attacked.

4. Cancel RoPs just because you don't like how the AI is behaving.

5. Sell luxury items to everyone regardless of how opposing parties feel.

6. Trade embargoes are unprofitable unless the nation has a trade embargo against you. They reduce your ability to make money.

7. Don't enter into a trade embargo with any nation that asks unless you aren't able to trade with the nation anyway.

8. Never let friendship stand in the way of profit.

9. Make sure you keep certain nations in your debt so you can exploit them.

10. Be the first one on your block to own a nuke, and display it proudly.

11. Bomb size 24 cities to size 4 before taking them. World opinion of you drops only slightly less than if you nuked them.

12. Always target population centers. It makes you a butcher, and inspires fear in your enemies.

13. Every once in a while declare peace.

It is certain that every nation will be furious with you. However you will stir up enough distrust that it will prevent anyone from being at peace long enough for a diplomatic victory. You get to have a very stressful and chaotic game. That and you get to see your foreign advisor make some real lame and contradictory statements.

He kept calling Xerses my friend, even though I'd been at war with him 3 times and nearly wiped him out. I thought the foreign advisor was an idiot, but then Xerses comes through with a huge trade at the end of the game. Probably because I screwed his enemies worse than I screwed him.

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by IDSmoker
I've noticed the same thing (my rep worsening worldwide for no apparent reason) in my current game. . .

Exactly. I figured out some time ago that Reputation is just another, more subtle, form of Screw the Human AI cheat. I'm tired of being blamed for stuff I never did and then finding some civ two thousand years later still hating me for it.

 

[Graeme the mad]

I think what zouave is saying is not true as such.
The Ai begins to dislike you if you get very big and powerful unless it is big and powerful. However I have seen no evidence that AI civs react differently too one another.
Sign a military alliance with someone agianst Germany - thatll make them like you.

 

[sumthinelse]

Either the AI gets annoyed/furious for no (humanly) intelligible reason, or.... or what? I can't think of any other explanation. They get annoyed , they declare war , they get furious .

The AI hates me, so what else is new? I win anyway, and I don't think I get points for them loving me except in the dip. victory, which I turned off.

Suggestion: Add a "reputation history log" to the game.

"775 AD -- you broke trade agreement by failing to provide silks to the Persians"

etc. etc.

While we are at it, let's not blame the human for the fact that the Egyptians destroyed the Persian road in 775 AD.

The "AI mood log" might get pretty boring, though:

"2550 BC -- the Germans became annoyed with you because it was time for them to get annoyed with you"

No, I can see why they wouldn't want to explain the AI mood....

 

[Klasanov]

My samurai were one tile away from their territory.

Yeah. I've always found it funny how my foreign advisor claims the Germans attacked me in the past, even when I clearly declared war on them. I wish I could cause him to commit seppuku or something. No. The guy's too humorous to die.

 

[Trinity]

Gawd. This is going to really date me. How many of you ever played a good old fashioned backstabbing game of Diplomacy? Be thankful you deal with at least somewhat predictable computer AI behavior. I actually formulated a way of winning the game while playing Turkey.

I also played a very similar game to Civ in a Sociology group study class. The professor called the game SimWorld. This was in 1973. He wanted to play test it on us. He also had a team writing a program for it to computerize the game with the way the teams behaved. Each team had 5 players: one for foreign advisor (me), one for military, one for internal security & espionage, one for trade, one as the leader. (I wonder if he knew Sid Meier?) And you think the AI is bad? I actually went out on dates with opposing team members to get information. I did draw the line at having sex. I knew it was the possibility of having sex that would be key. Over dinner and a few drinks, I'd find out information of how the respective team was getting along with each other, what each member thought, who really was in charge, and from that information I'd figure out how we could really screw them. Of course I had to give the impression of a quid pro quo, so I fed disinformation. You must be consistent with your disinformation.

We were the heels of the game. We lied, cheated, and stole from other civilizations, and we won. No holds barred. No disqualifications.

I'm sure the AI cuts backroom deals with itself, but you know one thing for sure. It may trade technology, but it won't trade strategic resources with itself. You know this. Exploit it. Human behavior is far worse than any I've ever witnessed by the Civ III AI.

All I can tell you is that a multi-player Civ III game is going to make you appreciative of the computer AI.

 

[sumthinelse]

I don't mind the AI's behaviour being so weird. That's just the way the game is. OK. I don't understand why so many posters claim that there is a sure-fire way to live in peace with the AI. If you have more than 4 civs in a game, it is very likely that some of them will attack you no matter what you do.

It's kind of like the first "Jaws" movie where Robert Shaw, the salty old shark hunter was telling about sharks attacking shipwrecked sailors. "We'd kick as hard as we could and yell. Sometimes they would go away. Sometimes they wouldn't go away...."

I think SMAC was the same way. Sooner or later one of them would attack.

 

[Graeme the mad]

'but it won't trade strategic resources with itself'

?????? - Yes it will

 

[Qitai]

If you are stronger, the AI will probably war you no matter what. On the otherhand, if you are weaker, you see the AI warring each other. That seems to be how it work.