What am i doing wrong?

shadow-walker_

Chieftain
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
50
i play my games and find that even when im always researching technology i still am only in the 2nd age when im at 1200 - 1500 ad and just barely at the start of it but you guys are in the 3rd age at the start of this age. How do you guys get through the first age so fast? is there something that im not doing? Am i researching techs that i dont need to? what am i doing wrong?
 
first, dont research every tech yourself, trade is essential and try to make trades on your turns only and trade your tech for 2-3 others. for example trade tech A to Civ 1 for tech B then tech a to Civ 2 for tech c, etc, etc. learn the AI research tendencies and research opposite them to maximize those trade opportunities. My suggestion is one or two entry level techs, then travel down the Writing line (Republic slingshot is wonderful, writing, code of laws, philosophy, then you get republic for free if you are the first to philosophy which is usual if you do not trade writing until after you get philosophy) After the republic slingshot, research literacy. then if / when you can trade for mathematics, set research to 10% or use one scientist and research currency. it takes 50 turns this way but you are almost guaranteed to be the first there unless you are at a high difficulty or tiny world. that will be more than enough techs to trade your way out of the aa and you will rake in a lot of gold. of course, a necessary requirement for trades is contacts, early exploration is essential.

other suggestions: make sure you are properly developing your land, building roads on all worked tiles, 1-2 workers per city. of course build libraries, and marketplaces to help your economy. search out luxuries and build temples to keep the luxury rate down. try to keep the science set to 70-80% or set it to 0, rake in a lot of gold and buy the techs from the AI. if you cannot keep science high figure out why and adjust your strategy. for example, are you building unecessary improvements in every city and have a lot of maintenance? do you have too many old units (warriors / chariots) try to upgrade or disband and build horse / swords.
 
1) Trade techs! If you try to research everything yourself, you will fall hopelessly behind.

2) Play on a higher level. The AI gets penalties on Chieftain and Warlord, which end up slowing the tech pace down quite a bit. On Deity, because of the AI bonuses, coupled with shrewd trading, it is not uncommon to be in the Modern Age by the year 1000 AD.
 
ok thank you. I have been playing on giant maps and trying to get every improvement for each city. I also usually have about 1 worker per 3 cities and it takes awhile to do things. I am also playing on low difficulties trying to get better before i start the 3rd lvl of difficulty. Thank you i'll just start doing harder difficulties and selling the techs i get.
 
The things that lead to fast research:

#1: Cities placed to make efficient use of the land around your capital. In the early game, this means cities fairly close together, because each city can only work 6 to 12 tiles tops.

At the very beginning, skimping on other things (say, waiting till later to build that temple) in order to get settlers out sooner will get your economic base going faster, and you WILL make up for the slow research at the beginning.

#2: Roads. Every single square that a city is working, MUST have a road. This is law. It is your Bible. If you see one of your citizens working a square that isn't roaded, you are evil and naughty and should be :spank:'ed.

(Well, leave out the :spank: part, but if you see a citizen working a non-roaded square, get a worker over there as soon as you can. Or better, THREE workers on grass or plains, so you can build the road in a single turn!)

#3: Make an early run at Literature and put libraries in those cities that produce enough research points to actually benefit from a library. (I also tend to go after Republic early, but that can be dicey if your empire isn't ready)

#4: DO NOT build "everything, everywhere"!!! Every building you put up costs money to maintain; if you build too many military units, they cost money too. Eventually, all these costs will force you to start shoving the science slider to the left.

In the Ancient Age, your cities can usually be defended reliably by one or two spearmen; a stack of five or six swordsmen can do a lot of damage to anybody you go to war with. Catapults are a convenience, not a necessity for invasions. You don't need 20 of every single type of military unit. And don't be afraid to disband old units such as warriors. If the unit doesn't have at least a decent chance of destroying the units your enemies are using, they are worthless except as military police.

Only build what you can actually use. You have no business building a library in a city that only produces 2 science. Don't build a marketplace in a city that only produces 1 gpt of tax income. You don't need a barracks in every single city; select one or two cities with access to lots of shields, and have those build all your military. You don't need a granary in every single city, either--only in "setter/worker pump" cities. I've never had a use for a granary in every city; even without them, my cities always grow right up to the riot control limit pretty quick. Usually I only build 2-4 granaries per game.

#5: Try to avoid using the happy slider, unless you're comfy with your empire and are willing to spend the extra gold to build up your score. The happy slider is surprisingly inefficient at making people happy! Luxury goods are far better. Even paying another empire gpt in exchange for luxuries is more efficient than the happy slider! (In the late game, I've discovered that turning up the happy slider ONE notch almost always costs twice as much as buying luxuries at 100 gpt from another civ! The only downside is that a potential enemy gets to use the gold you pay them for the luxuries)

If you have ONE city that's threatening to riot on you, don't use the happy slider. Turn one citizen into an entertainer. If you REALLY want to use the happy slider to prevent riots, check the loss of tax revenue (i.e. see how much it will "cost" you to turn the slider up) then see how much it costs to use entertainers instead.
 
Bah, half a dozen people jumped in after I started writing that last one! :lol:

Your habit of "trying to get every improvement for each city" is the problem. Without ever seeing your map, I'm almost sure of it. You also need more workers; preferably one per city. I know it can be painful to postpone that temple that you REALLY want. Well, :cry: for a bit, then once you get that outta your system :D build the worker first.

Stop and look at the city screen before building stuff, and ask yourself if the city actually can use whatever you want to build. (That thing about only building library/marketplace where they actually do some good, but I already said that). Another thing: you don't need walls in every city either. In fact, that's my least-used improvement. Only put up walls in a city that is certain to see a lot of fighting, AND is in danger of being lost in all that fighting.
 
BasketCase said:
Another thing: you don't need walls in every city either. In fact, that's my least-used improvement. Only put up walls in a city that is certain to see a lot of fighting, AND is in danger of being lost in all that fighting.

that is a very good point & i agree. i never build walls, but this also has a lot to do with my war strategy to "convince" the AI not to attack my smaller cities and once a city reaches level 2 (7 citizens) walls have no value. in the REX phase of the game walls are never needed vs AI
 
ok here is the game i started after reading your guys thoughts and i find tech was a lot easier. Although i hadnt read basketcase's posts i thought about just building things i needed in the cities to make gold. My one question is, what do i do after ive done the city improvements needed and built my army? Wealth?Tech trading made me rich every 20 turns and once greece gave me communications to rome, iroqouis, and england i got 600 gold in one turn O_O. I've been in several wars i havent lost anything on defense but on offense i lost a few. Ending up with me still having my 5 cities and them still having however many.
 
shadow-walker_ said:
My one question is, what do i do after ive done the city improvements needed and built my army? Wealth?

you can build wealth, but i find, especially in the early game, there is always the need for more workers. if you only have 5 cities, build more settlers. & of course there are always wonders. if there is no wonder available or not one you really want, start a pre-build w/ palace. in my core cities there is always something which needs built. i have not viewed your save though
 
in my save i cant expand it shows you that and i'm in the process of killing off my workers because they are making me cost maintenence but now in republic (i think i might go communism >_<) i cant maintain my army since they cost so much (18 gold per turn)
 
i started a new game and this one is my best ive played since ive installed :goodjob: I am in the 2nd age at 560 AD and ive met all civs. I can crush anyone with my economic might. My military is lacking in offense but the defense is just insane :crazyeye: i am in monarchy and it works really well for me. my best city is producing like 10 food and 13 shields :p (i think or maybe thats two of my cities(one is food and other is shields )) heres the game
 
Note: I have not looked at either of your saves.

I just noticed a comment about your earlier game -- that you were disbanding workers. I would vehemently recommend against ever (EVER!) disbanding workers (with the sole exception of having a couple hundred slave workers late in the game). Don't be afraid of a little upkeep -- that's what the gold is for. It is entirely reasonable to be paying more than 400 gpt for your military if you are in Republic or Democracy, and just had a major war.
 
okay, i looked at your saves, i'm really only going to comment about the second one and i made a few changes in build orders in case you want to take a look at it. 1st, in those high corruption cities, build courthouses. In coastal cities build harbors, you had one city building an aqueduct, the city had 4 citizens and no excess food, this is an example of an unneeded improvement that will waste your maintenance costs. first build the harbor for the +1 food in water to get the city growing again, then build the aqueduct. in this game you definitely need more workers, i dont know how many you had, i did not see too many, but several citizens were working unimproved tiles. also, do NOT let the governor place your workers for you, there were several minor adjustments where taking a citizen off oine tile and working another made a big difference, one city will starve next turn, but it will build the harbor in 16 turns vs 40 and it was not going to grow anyway (after starving the same city will still build the harbor in 16 turns and will have 0 excess food, it just loses on citizen working coast.) also, build cities closer, your cities are too far apart, which means you could fit more cities in your land if you built tighter. the most you should have is 4 tiles between cities, but especially as you get farther from your capitol try 3 or even 2 tiles away. there is room for about 3 cities alopng the coast very near your capitol, even though there is only hills and coast available to work, build the cities there anyway, they are close to capitol and will have low corruption, if nothing else build harbors only, maybe a temple for happiness and culture and then rake in the gold form all the coastal squares worked (eventually markets / librbaries in those cities will add even more boost) coastal cities can really help your economy, but they can be slow building, make sure not to build unecessary improvements in those and dont use them for units, except for boats of course, unless the surrounding terrain has other good workable tiles. and just like wild wolverine said, dont disband workers, they always serve a purpose sometime especially in the iundustrial age when it is time to rail. they can help in war times to lay roads to get your units out to your enemy faster and any AI city that is taken over always needs tile reworked. if you really cannot find anything for a worker to do, then add it back to your pop, but i will keep 35 workers fortified in a city with nothing to do because they will have something to do eventually. in fact, sometimes when i have cities reaching 12 citizens and a long way until i can build hospitals, i will build a worker everytime that city reaches 12 and just stockpile them if nothing else. But, one good project for idle workers is if you are planning a war with a neighbor, but that war is a long way off (more than 20 turns) get an ROP with your neighbor and send in your workers to "adjust" your neighbor's terrain more to your liking. even if you are not plannig a war sometimes you can "adjust" a neighbor's terrain more to your liking such as irrigating every tile and therfore crippling their shiled output, or foresting every tile, thus crippling their growth. there is almost always somewthing creative you can do with workers.
 
ok thanks im going to make a new game and when you said "make cities 3 tiles away" actual tiles or tiles from the border? thanks in advance.
 
shadow-walker_ said:
ok thanks im going to make a new game and when you said "make cities 3 tiles away" actual tiles or tiles from the border? thanks in advance.

actual tiles from city square to city square.

c = city tile

i try to build something like cxxxc



also, i forgot to upload the save with my changes so you can look at some of the build order suggestions i had.
 
i couldnt view it are you in JUST vanilla civ? because im in JUST vanilla not PTW or C3C. btw here is a new game i started i have a pretty compact island with 5 incenses ( :p ) and about everyone else on surrounding islands. but how are the zulu warmongering with 3 cities and holding their own vs giant russia? WTH?
 
Shadow, you have too many granaries. Little value to them in any but the the +3 food or better ciies. You have many techs missing and could get some for free. I traded around and got Chiv, Republic and Monotheism.


Many cities have little or no mines, so they are not producing shields. Make some workers and have at least 1 per city until after you get railroads build everywhere. Then you can think about unloading a few.

Use the lux slider to prevent use of entertainers. A 10% lux slider will allow those citizens to go back to work. You may even get a WLTKD in a city or two.

I did not notice any barracks at all? You want to make only vet troops after the initial warriors, so any city making troops must have a barracks.

You should consider changing your preference settings to have wait at end of turn. This allows you to make that around the empire checks to see that things are being done as they should be done.

Turn off animation for all but battles as it is just a waste of time. Use the ask for builds when done option. This allows you to keep an eye on the stupid govenor.

It will take a collossal effort to over take Germany now with the land and its condition that you have. It could be done, but you would have to go all out warmongger.

At regent you should be leading the AI in research, especially with vanilla civ. The last time I played someones Monarch civ3 game, I build every single wonder in the game. You do not have any and France is an industrial civ with commerce. The GL should be a snap for France, they start with Alphabet.

I do admit you have a less than stellar start location. You could get curraghs out right away if you founded on the coast and meet all the civs very early and make a heck of a start though.

With no rivers, it makes life rougher. You have only two mines in the capitol?

Until you are beating the AI with one eye closed, I would suggest not playing from any start that did not have a river for the capitol or at least one close by. You do not need to have a handicap at this point.

It looks like the AI civs start with a river or a lake in the captiol radius. A bonus food tile is of no value or little anyway, with no water.

Good luck and way to stick to it.
 
vmxa had some very good points and i cant think of anything to add really, city spacing was much improved, but in the future you could spread the "core" cities out one more tile, but the spacing as is is fine until you get a better understanding of exactly where you want your cities

i have to strongly concur with vmxa about the trades, i dont remember exactly, but i know i got some techs and a luxury from somewhere.

regarding your previous question about what version of civ i am using, i cant find my vanilla disk, so i loaded it in PTW, sorry i cant post a save you can view. and again i must concur with vmxa, build more workers, then when you think you have enough, build more workers. the only point i disagree with is the granaries, i build morew than the typical player, but i would say in the more corrupt cities you should skip it, you do not want to pay more maintenance for a city than the commerce it contributes. keep it at.
 
When and where to make granaries can be debated, but my thinking here is he has no rivers and no lake near the start point.

He cannot get above size 6 with out aquas and that is a long way off at the start. So to spend time making granaries is not a good investment.

Those shields could have been used to get some more troops and land.

Even if I had a nice start, I am not going to spend the production on granaries in any but the pump cities. Much later that may make sense in a few more cities, but past the core cities, it is just not worth it.

If you are going to play a poor start location like that one, but must get moving on annexing land. Frankly that location is not good enough for players that struggle at monarch.
 
Back
Top Bottom