What bothers me in Civ4 single player

[Naokaukodem]

This topic is NOT for intolerent people & other fanatics that can't stand other opinions than their own. This forum being called "Civfanatics" is not an excuse. If you are not convinced, please read the forum rules and avoid flaming. Thank you.

I already shared my opinion about many things of Civ4, such as the difficulty being too high, IMHO. I continue to play the game in multiplayer though, from time to time. Lastly, I tryed to play another single player game, thinking I should be more aware of the game mechanics, of the things to do early in order to take advantage. I was playing in Monarch, as usual. Unfortunately, I failed to see any improvment in my game: the AI was too far away.

Then I realised that I did not trade at all with the AI. True, in multiplayer we usually turn tech trading off, because the trades between two or three players would unbalance the game.

In single player, this is different: trade is generalized. If you don't trade, you lose. Then again, I realised that I didn't want to trade. Why? Because this is a pain.

As I just said, trade is generalized, so that one have to check each turn for new techs at every AI. This is really annoying and breaks the rhythm of the game...

So I have a suggestion: to automate, by a manner or another, trades.

For example, contacts, culture influences, distances, communication ways such as roads, rivers, seas, oceans, air, would have an influence on automatic tech trading. So, a given civilization would earn free techs if it has a big enough tech trading factor. Of course, only the techs already discovered by a civilization the player has contact with would be tradable this way.

What do you think? (Please stay courteous)

 

[Elear]

Well I have a few problems with Civ4's trading system myself.

What I will say though, is that trading can be a lot of fun! Finding the deals and buying and reselling is all part of the 'game' in my opinion.

EDIT: Plus 'tech trading factor' would introduce serious flaws. There would be no way to buy and sell at will, withholding techs, or getting certain ones on purpose or not, etc. There's infinite minus one strategies for how to trade.

 

[PraetorianSteve]

This could be an interesting idea, maybe espionage could be added on top of that as a part of the budget?

 

[Psyringe]

So I have a suggestion: to automate, by a manner or another, trades.

For example, contacts, culture influences, distances, communication ways such as roads, rivers, seas, oceans, air, would have an influence on automatic tech trading. So, a given civilization would earn free techs if it has a big enough tech trading factor. Of course, only the techs already discovered by a civilization the player has contact with would be tradable this way.

What do you think? (Please stay courteous)

I don't think that it would improve the game. Automating tech trades in the way you propose would seriously reduce my playing options. I couldn't hold back a tech until I get a headstart on building an accompanied wonder, for or to build an army that's more modern than that of my rivals.

Whether to trade a tech away or not is an important strategic decision. Automating this process would reduce the strategic element of the game, which I (personally) wouldn't want.

Side question: What exactly do you think is a pain in trading? I found it definitely disruptive to gameplay when I stepped by at every single rival to see whether they had something new to offer. This took a lot of time and many clicks. But some day I discovered the trade advisor and found it extremely easy to use. After two clicks it tells you exactly which rival has which tech that you still need, and even whether he would consider trading it. Now, I usually check the trade advisor every couple of turns. It takes barely five seconds to get every information that is needed, and for me that's not disruptive at all.

 

[Naokaukodem]

This could be an interesting idea, maybe espionage could be added on top of that as a part of the budget?

Well, a bugdet for spying could be possible. This would make sense as stealing a tech would cost less than discovering it on his own. This would increase the trading tech factor.

But the techs you discover would not give you the advantage for a better army or a wonder, as mentionned Psyringe; you would be only a follower.

I couldn't hold back a tech until I get a headstart on building an accompanied wonder, for or to build an army that's more modern than that of my rivals.

Hmmm... techs would not be traded "automatically", i mean everytime. You would have a certain chance to keep your precious techs, the more you have techs in advance. Plus, there could be some kind of arrangment... like you can decide to close your frontiers to spies, so that the tech trading would be highly reduced for a given time. finally, one could know which techs have his enemies, like in Civ4, but they would be indicated in the tech tree, like if the tech is grey, nobody have it, if it's blue you are the only one to have it, if it's yellow your enemies have it, if it's purple, both you and your enemies have it.

But some day I discovered the trade advisor and found it extremely easy to use.

OK, I'll try it, and I will let you know if I still prefer the game without tech trading or not.

 

[Tigerclaw]

Personally, whilst this is a well thought out idea, I really don't think this would make for a good game feature. Because it takes a substantial element of control over an important game feature (the tech race, holding on to techs, trading for them, etc) out of the hands of the player, and into the hands of "chance". People really don't like losing control over these sorts of things, and I think it would upset a lot of people.


It'd be great if Civ4 was meant to be an uber realistic simulation, but it's not. It's meant to be a game, and so accuracy is often sacrificed (not saying that's a good or bad thing) for gameplay...

 

[Thedrin]

I'm assuming that this is meant as a custom game set up option - the player can choose to switch it on (off by default) at the beginning of a game. I'm wondering if you can get agreement on what weights to add to each different factor. I also suspect that it would require a change to the way civs currently research - I believe that civs already get research bonuses depending on the number of other civs that already have the technology being researched.

Incidently, why not switch off the tech trading option when playing single player?

 

[Rathelon]

I usually play with tech trading off in my single player games. I figure, make 'em earn it the hard way.

 

[chopstyx]

I posted this in another thread but I thought it was relevant here too:

What annoys me about single-player trading is the 'redded' out technologies / deals / resources that the AI civs won't trade UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

EVERYTHING should have a price no matter how much the other civ hates you. Even if the civilisation isn't going to give it to you I still don't like the fact that it's red meaning you can't even offer something.

Cyrus won't give you Military Tradition? Not even for every city in your civilisation apart from your capital? It's ridiculous. (exageratted but you get my point)

 

[Carver]

I pretty much agree, chopstyx. There is far too much that the AIs refuse to trade. But I can see where some trades would be out of the question, such as a key tech late in the space race. The redding-out has a purpose, the AIs just use it far too often.

 

[zooropa86]

u know, there is something similar to your idea. its called tech leaking mod, i think. i doubt it takes into account all of the factors u mentioned, but u should check it out anyways.

 

[gunkulator]

Actually I find the current trading system more realistic. If the AI is ahead of you in tech, why should they help you when they can simply dominate you? If you are ahead of the AI, it would be foolish for them to boost your lead.

Monopoly techs should pretty much always be red. Most "leading edge" techs should similarly also be red. Techs that allow a new unit or unbuilt wonder should likewise be red. The only techs that should generally be available for trade are those that are one or more tiers back from the leading edge. I can see two civs trading two older techs. Most real world trade agreements are this kind. You never trade your best technology to a rival in the real world.

 

[Naismith]

I don't think that it would improve the game. Automating tech trades in the way you propose would seriously reduce my playing options. I couldn't hold back a tech until I get a headstart on building an accompanied wonder, for or to build an army that's more modern than that of my rivals.

Whether to trade a tech away or not is an important strategic decision. Automating this process would reduce the strategic element of the game, which I (personally) wouldn't want.

Side question: What exactly do you think is a pain in trading? I found it definitely disruptive to gameplay when I stepped by at every single rival to see whether they had something new to offer. This took a lot of time and many clicks. But some day I discovered the trade advisor and found it extremely easy to use. After two clicks it tells you exactly which rival has which tech that you still need, and even whether he would consider trading it. Now, I usually check the trade advisor every couple of turns. It takes barely five seconds to get every information that is needed, and for me that's not disruptive at all.

I pretty much agree with the above. The trade advisor is pretty handy compared to visiting every Civ leader every turn. You can see what techs each Civ has and is willing to trade. You can see the entire list of techs you have that one or more Civs doesn't have. But it doesn't show what techs you can trade to each Civ individually, which would be very useful.

One of the reasons I never play a Huge map is because it's so irritating to monitor possible trades every turn.

 

[tiznoast]

As I just said, trade is generalized, so that one have to check each turn for new techs at every AI.

no you don't - just check whenever you get a new tech... it takes two seconds. Then you can check back once every 10-15 turns... pretty soon you'll have a good idea who's ahead and who's behind - who's your friend and who isn't - who's likely to want to trade X or Y and who isn't... then you can check even less.

 

[tiznoast]

I usually play with tech trading off in my single player games. I figure, make 'em earn it the hard way.

by "'em" do you mean yourself - because on any reasonably difficult level, you're going to be spanked for the first half+ of the game tech-wise... why make it that much harder on yourself?

 

[tiznoast]

EVERYTHING should have a price no matter how much the other civ hates you.

there are plenty of techs i never ever would consider trading to the AI - ever.... not everything has a price.

 

[Vraslosken]

But it doesn't show what techs you can trade to each Civ individually, which would be very useful.

It does. Just click on that civ´s leaderhead.

 

[gcdavey]

It would be cool if when u takeover a city u would get one of their techs

 

[Psyringe]

I pretty much agree with the above. The trade advisor is pretty handy compared to visiting every Civ leader every turn. You can see what techs each Civ has and is willing to trade. You can see the entire list of techs you have that one or more Civs doesn't have. But it doesn't show what techs you can trade to each Civ individually, which would be very useful.

When you click on a leader's face in the tech advisor, then the display of *your* techs should change and show only those techs that you can trade to the selected leader. Is that what you meant (not entirely sure myself )?

 

[chopstyx]

there are plenty of techs i never ever would consider trading to the AI - ever.... not everything has a price.

So if a civ offered you 3 nice large cities in a good spot you would still say no?