What can I expect from G&K?

[Lord Ben]

I haven't bought the expansion yet, typically I only ever buy the Vanilla game and never get the follow on packs. I tend to enjoy the core experience and tweaking around with that better than spending $30 for spies I never use and a few extra civ's to play.

G&K has me interested though, seems a bit more in depth than just adding spies and lawyers.

What are the key good points and bad points? I've read the back of the box review that says what they were going for but I'd like to know if it was successful or not really and gather some opinions before deciding whether or not it's worth my money.. heh.

 

[DavisonACT]

I haven't bought the expansion yet, typically I only ever buy the Vanilla game and never get the follow on packs. I tend to enjoy the core experience and tweaking around with that better than spending $30 for spies I never use and a few extra civ's to play.

G&K has me interested though, seems a bit more in depth than just adding spies and lawyers.

What are the key good points and bad points? I've read the back of the box review that says what they were going for but I'd like to know if it was successful or not really and gather some opinions before deciding whether or not it's worth my money.. heh.

There is an excellent thread on these forums that goes into the content and how it works and what it adds to the game in great detail:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=464730

 

[SnowKomodo]

Personally I found G&K to be a huge improvement from vanilla. I can't imagine playing without the religion mechanics. At the same time, if you like vanilla and you aren't growing weary of it then there is no reason to fix what ain't broke. If you like mods you could probably find enough variety there to increase the lifespan of vanilla without having to spend a dime

Personal take on a few aspects:

Pros
+City-states and relations w/ them vastly improved
+Religion, gives the game replay value and feels like the missing jigsaw piece
+The simple fact that you have 9 more civs adds a lot to the experience, never overlook that
+Tech and SP balancing
+Naval warfare is relevant and actually enjoyable

Cons
-Espionage is certainly a welcome addition but I'm just not a fan of the mechanics. Between religion and espionage, religion feels like a core addition while espionage feels like it's tacked on. I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if they removed it from the game entirely
-Diplomacy still feels somewhat muddled. So much so that I'm not even sure how to compare it between vanilla, pre-G&K patch and post. I'll leave that to someone else

Overall I recommend it, but you should really explore that link above and its comments

 

[Socratatus]

Well I only played one game of vanilla before getting GK (I found vanilla really boring and empty), so I`m not sure how much has really changed.

I liked the additional Leader Civs and I liked the ability to spy, especially being able to inform friendly Civs of sneak invasions. Spying adds more to your negotiation diplomacy. However, spying is very weak due to the fact that you can`t do much else except steal Techs. sabotage would`ve been great, especially when you need to slow down a Civ runaway, etc.

Religion is ok for providing lots of buffs, but I find it somewhat artificial.

AI improvements and Leaders are probably the best part of the expansion to summarise.

 

[Fluffball]

I think the best gauge i can give is i could never see myself going back and playing a vanilla game. Even if it is simply because the diplomacy seems so much better in G&K. It's still not perfect but you can actually make some meaningful relationships with the AI's if you try now.

Religion is probably the most game changing addition and it works very well while also adding another level to the game play. And due the vast variety of options you can choose for your religions it becomes another way to specialise/customise your game.

The new units and unit mechanics, mainly on the naval front but throughout the span make for a lot more interesting options overall.

As already mentioned, espionage seems a little tacked on and could do with some more options to it to make it properly engaging but the small number of options you do currently gain are welcome additions.

As for the back of the box review, i can't say how it compares but if you check out that linked guide that gives a very good rundown of all the available options.

For the price of the expansion i would say it is well worth it but if you don't mind waiting a couple of weeks there is likely to be another steam sale soon where you could pick it up for next to nothing.

 

[DavisonACT]

As an aside I knew about the likelihood of a Steam seasonal sale but the info in the posts I linked above was so enticing I went out and bought it anyway - and I'm happy with what was in the box for reasons discussed by the posters above.

Now, I paid $24 - let's see how much that will cost me in a week or two

 

[Dentalfury]

Personally I found G&K to be a huge improvement from vanilla. I can't imagine playing without the religion mechanics. At the same time, if you like vanilla and you aren't growing weary of it then there is no reason to fix what ain't broke. If you like mods you could probably find enough variety there to increase the lifespan of vanilla without having to spend a dime

Personal take on a few aspects:

Pros
+City-states and relations w/ them vastly improved
+Religion, gives the game replay value and feels like the missing jigsaw piece
+The simple fact that you have 9 more civs adds a lot to the experience, never overlook that
+Tech and SP balancing
+Naval warfare is relevant and actually enjoyable

Cons
-Espionage is certainly a welcome addition but I'm just not a fan of the mechanics. Between religion and espionage, religion feels like a core addition while espionage feels like it's tacked on. I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if they removed it from the game entirely
-Diplomacy still feels somewhat muddled. So much so that I'm not even sure how to compare it between vanilla, pre-G&K patch and post. I'll leave that to someone else

Overall I recommend it, but you should really explore that link above and its comments

This.

 

[Lord Ben]

For the price of the expansion i would say it is well worth it but if you don't mind waiting a couple of weeks there is likely to be another steam sale soon where you could pick it up for next to nothing.

Yeah, I didn't buy it at the last Steam sale and that's mostly what I was waiting for and wanted to check if it was worth it first. Thanks, looks like I'll be picking it up.

 

[smallfish]

Someone once said it made Civ5 into a far more refined version of Civ4, and I kinda agree.

Also, Frontier map type on Low sea level is amazing. If ya'll love exploration and ruins and a sense of wonder and MASSIVE BARB ARMIES (if not big enough, put it on Raging ), this map type is just for you.

 

[joncnunn]

I haven't bought the expansion yet, typically I only ever buy the Vanilla game and never get the follow on packs. I tend to enjoy the core experience and tweaking around with that better than spending $30 for spies I never use and a few extra civ's to play.

G&K has me interested though, seems a bit more in depth than just adding spies and lawyers.

What are the key good points and bad points? I've read the back of the box review that says what they were going for but I'd like to know if it was successful or not really and gather some opinions before deciding whether or not it's worth my money.. heh.

My take:
Overall it's a better game

Social Policies: Vanilla was always go Liberty First; G&K changes is now always go Tradition first.
The Freedom being a really popular policy compared to both Order & Autocracy due to being available earlier was addressed, but in the opposite direction of what players would prefer. (They delayed when you can open Freedom instead of moving the opening of the other two up)

Victories: Diplomatic victory considerably faster in G&K than Vanilla (you can be-line techs again going for Diplomatic which a patch to vanilla had eliminated)
Cultural also looks a bit easier while a few more techs required for science.

Specific tactics nerfed:
RAs heavilly nerfed with the DOF requirements on top of merely producing beakers instead of free tech.
Nerf bat also also to use Great Scientists to be-line. (It's now 8 turns of science with carry over instead of a free tech of your choosing)
Nerf bat applies to Great Person induced Golden Ages: Now just Artists
Nerf bat applied to PT (delayed)
Old functionality of the HS moved eras later. (HS is still a good wonder in G&K, it provides a Great Phophet now)

The religious aspects: are fun although the policies themselves are not balanced; you could argue that the balancing aspect is how much of a priority to make religions, but the AI isn't that good at choosing the best policies available for them.

Spy aspects: If you have a tech lead, you need to invest in spy buildings in your core cities to limit your loses. But if your behind, you can use them to narrow the gap.

City state quests: Much improved.

AI being so bad at managing happiness it needs the Chieftain bonus: Not changed in base game. There are however mods in both vanilla and G&K that address it. (VEM & GEM)