What civ is the one the gets the most undeserved bad rap?
- Thread starter Artifex1
- Start date
janboruta
Artistriarch
Ottomans. I always enjoyed playing them. Be lucky to begin game on the coast, build one-two triremes and you'll get your navy up and running relatively quickly. Beeline gunpowder and you get Janissaries - unstoppable war machine - couple them with cannons and Sipahis (though most likely you'll still have Knights, they also do the job) and military victory is yours. This is one of the few civs with which it is better not to beeline Rifling. Spam Janissaries and only then upgrade to Rifles - self-healing riflemen? I'd take them anytime.
German trait is also good. Makes you explore and fight with barbs (getting gold and new soldiers from defeated encampments? great! ), so your army can grow and deliver a nice punch early on. Half the army maintenace cost? That's a lot of money if you're a warmonger. Buy panzers for that money and you're ready to roll.
American trait is mediocre, at least for me. +1 sight is good for exploration, but I didn't find any more uses for it.
England deserves a buff. Bonus momvement for naval units only? That's laughable. Longbowmen kinda make up for it, but I still think that all civs should have ships of the line (more historically accurate), and England should get a UB, maybe reflecting the industrial revolution, their quirky parliamentary monarchy or a better Harbour/Seaport.
German trait is also good. Makes you explore and fight with barbs (getting gold and new soldiers from defeated encampments? great! ), so your army can grow and deliver a nice punch early on. Half the army maintenace cost? That's a lot of money if you're a warmonger. Buy panzers for that money and you're ready to roll.
American trait is mediocre, at least for me. +1 sight is good for exploration, but I didn't find any more uses for it.
England deserves a buff. Bonus momvement for naval units only? That's laughable. Longbowmen kinda make up for it, but I still think that all civs should have ships of the line (more historically accurate), and England should get a UB, maybe reflecting the industrial revolution, their quirky parliamentary monarchy or a better Harbour/Seaport.
MadDjinn
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 4,554
the american traits are underrated. The others are fairly 'normal' in how people think of them. (though maybe the Ottomans get underrated a bit as well)
+1 sight is a good bonus for exploration and for fighting. Helps get map knowledge and meeting CSs/AIs a lot faster than anyone else. (grabbing the CS for 30g while standing beside an AI scout is always good times) Fighting wise, you get that 1 extra tile of sight, so you won't walk your units into a trap and/or can counter a shift of units by the AI. Siege units being able to see 2 tiles is nice.
-50% discount on purchasing tiles is nothing to complain about. Normally you never buy tiles, but with the Americans the tiles are cheap enough to warrant it some times. (buying a lux for 25-35g 10-15 turns before the culture border pops coverts to more than that in gold from lux sales) Buying up 3-4 more forests for chopping an early wonder is very easy with the americans. It'd cost too much as anyone else.
the minuteman is in a bad spot, but actually ends up a decent unit if you dodge rifling for a bit. (which I do now for a lot of games anyways)
+1 sight is a good bonus for exploration and for fighting. Helps get map knowledge and meeting CSs/AIs a lot faster than anyone else. (grabbing the CS for 30g while standing beside an AI scout is always good times) Fighting wise, you get that 1 extra tile of sight, so you won't walk your units into a trap and/or can counter a shift of units by the AI. Siege units being able to see 2 tiles is nice.
-50% discount on purchasing tiles is nothing to complain about. Normally you never buy tiles, but with the Americans the tiles are cheap enough to warrant it some times. (buying a lux for 25-35g 10-15 turns before the culture border pops coverts to more than that in gold from lux sales) Buying up 3-4 more forests for chopping an early wonder is very easy with the americans. It'd cost too much as anyone else.
the minuteman is in a bad spot, but actually ends up a decent unit if you dodge rifling for a bit. (which I do now for a lot of games anyways)
Kerosene31
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2001
- Messages
- 409
America isn't that bad. The sight bonus can be big early on when expanding and later on during all combat, and the 1/2 price on tile purchases can be big early on when cash is tight. You can get those vital resources which are 2 tiles away a little faster and grow some early cities. With America you can scout faster and find better city locations faster and expand faster if you play your cards right.
They can be ok at expansion if you play it right. If you are an early land grabber, they can be decent.
They can be ok at expansion if you play it right. If you are an early land grabber, they can be decent.
Dreadnought
Deity
Definitely America. Their ability, while admittedly isn't flashy, is a very flexible one that can help you in any victory situation, and buying tiles to deny them to the enemy is a long term, lucrative strategy.
I also feel that B-17s are the most underrated unit in the game. Those things are war winning if you get them. Minutemen are somewhat underwhelming, but their ability is very nice when on the offensive.
I also feel that B-17s are the most underrated unit in the game. Those things are war winning if you get them. Minutemen are somewhat underwhelming, but their ability is very nice when on the offensive.
ShahJahanII
Homesick Alien
Ottomans and Germany are both great.
I don't like playing with America at all.
England can be fair if used right.
I voted for Ottomans, since they are one of the best and have the worst rep.
I don't like playing with America at all.
England can be fair if used right.
I voted for Ottomans, since they are one of the best and have the worst rep.
Omega124
Challenging Fate
England is one of the best war civs in the game, because they have arguably the best UU in the game. Longbows are an absulote beast, for the extended range allows them to hit cities but be out of range for the counterattack. 2-3 Longbows completely negate the use of seige units in attacking a city. So yes, the Ship of the Line is useless for the fact the AI just sucks at naval warfare, and the UA is on the worse side of the scale, but the Longbows make up for it tenfold.
ShahJahanII
Homesick Alien
If longbows are sooo great, I would play as Mongolia, because Keshiks are better.
TopGearFanatic
Duke of St. Louis
Ottomans; their ability isn't that great, but their units are amazing.
Steelyglint
Warlord
Germany, every time. In early game in particular when I've been spamming warriors for millennia the 25% saving stops me from going bankrupt. None of the other seem to be much use to me, apart chasing barbs who kidnapped my workers from the rolling plains of Washington. Which is really fun, but doesn't get you anywhere.
ShahJahanII:
Keshik being incredible doesn't stop Longbowmen from being good. Rendering arguably the most powerful unit in the game its credit doesn't mean that every other unit short of it is bad.
Longbowmen are really good - about the same as Camel Archers, which are just short of Keshik. The LOS requirements can be a pain every so often, but that's what the UA is for.
Incidentally, I don't think many people realize that England's UA applies to both naval vessels and to Embarked units. Embarking land units en route to a fight in a distant location can be significantly faster than walking them there, especially when you're crossing 5 tiles of Hills or Forest. There's also the little matter of nice Amphibious promotions, which matter more in maps that have water - Archi or Continents or some such. With Amphi, you can coordinate Ship of the Line bombardment with Longbowmen bombardment, and have Amphibious Longswordsmen on standby to take over, without subjecting it to counter attack from the city. It's definitely a good way to invade a port location.
Keshik being incredible doesn't stop Longbowmen from being good. Rendering arguably the most powerful unit in the game its credit doesn't mean that every other unit short of it is bad.
Longbowmen are really good - about the same as Camel Archers, which are just short of Keshik. The LOS requirements can be a pain every so often, but that's what the UA is for.
Incidentally, I don't think many people realize that England's UA applies to both naval vessels and to Embarked units. Embarking land units en route to a fight in a distant location can be significantly faster than walking them there, especially when you're crossing 5 tiles of Hills or Forest. There's also the little matter of nice Amphibious promotions, which matter more in maps that have water - Archi or Continents or some such. With Amphi, you can coordinate Ship of the Line bombardment with Longbowmen bombardment, and have Amphibious Longswordsmen on standby to take over, without subjecting it to counter attack from the city. It's definitely a good way to invade a port location.
Artifex1
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2006
- Messages
- 284
Is the best way to play germany is pump out a ton of warriors at the start and warrior rush?
Among these 4 weak Unique Abilities; America's is less so. Extra sight early on helps finding Monuments, finding a good spot and fog busting. And sometimes the reduced price for buying a tile comes in handy.
In fact, America used to have an advantage of always starting near a river before a recent patch took that away.
In fact, America used to have an advantage of always starting near a river before a recent patch took that away.
Steelyglint
Warlord
England gets a lot of hate because their abilities are very situational. However, they're great on maps that favor naval power. Not to mention that Longbowmen are awesome. Ottoman's UU is incredible, but unfortunately their UA is total garbage. Germany sort of falls into the same situation, but their UA is marginally more useful. America's UA isn't that useful, and their UUs aren't that great.
So in order of least deserving of hate to most IMO: England, Germany, Ottomans, America
So in order of least deserving of hate to most IMO: England, Germany, Ottomans, America
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I voted America. I liked their UA a lot (the LoS benefit, not the tile purchases, although it was surprisingly pleasant every time I wanted to take advantage of that too). I also really liked Minutemen. When upgraded to Infantry, they were great (very sad day when I lost them eventually). B-17's seemed nice, but wasn't something I particularly cared about. I decimated a Civ with them, but I could have decimated them with a handful of Mech Inf.
I loved Jannisaries. I stand by my belief that the Ottomans' existence is justified by them alone. However, America deserves respect for what it has as well.
I loved Jannisaries. I stand by my belief that the Ottomans' existence is justified by them alone. However, America deserves respect for what it has as well.
AmbientDarkness
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2011
- Messages
- 10
Voted for the Ottomans. Four bad UAs, but Janissaries are incredible. The longbow is excellent for its era, but Janissaries carry their advantages while upgrading which makes them relevant well past rifling.
Tacgnol
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2008
- Messages
- 216
England's UA is absolutely worthless, UUs are decent, I've never actually played as them because the UA is so unappealing but I can't see them being good at all, Ottomans are entirely dependent on janissaries which are pretty awesome but they don't really have anything else, America's UA is as useless as England's but at least is aware it is useless, B-17s are a joke and minutemen are just bleh, Germany however has a respectable if weak UA and two decent UUs, as Germany it's very easy to turn a couple warriors into an ancient-classical army which then nicely progresses into a landsknecht spammed medieval army all with reduced maintenance and if you do end up somewhat weak mid game you have the incredibly badass panzers to reestablish your dominance.
