What do you expect from an Expansion?

as someone who doesnt play scenarios a lot, i dont like getting a civ with a very situational bonus. some of the civs have interesting bonuses but terrible ones for something like immortal/deity victories on normal board settings. i like civs that have a general bonus for the basic game victories, and i particularly like civs that have a unique unit AND a unique building, but not just two unique units.

obviously those who like scenarios more than standard would like stuff like Denmark or Polynesia, but i honestly have no interest in playing them (thus i never bought those DLCs).

i would also like to disable the opening animation scene altogether. as gorgeous as it is, my version through steam plays it FOREVER before going to the game screen. pounding ESC and space bar do nothing to speed it up.

I've only recently started playing scenarios, and they certainly represent a large part of the value of the DLCs (which, as I recall, is factored into the price - Babylon, with no scenario, is the cheapest DLC).

Even so, the hostility towards Civ V DLC does suggest to me that people here are largely unfamiliar with the DLC offered by other companies - because Civ's are pretty much the best out there. Other companies ask you to pay for packs that change graphics but have no in-game effects, for instance, or just give you bonuses for minor play modes (such as real-time strategy games with 'DoTA' type play modes, which only offer DLC content for those modes). Total War is the closest I've seen to what Civ offers - new units plus historical battles - but the Shogun 2 DLC particularly puts me off by wilfully adding fantasy units despite the historical setting. And don't even think of what Age of Empires Online charges for their crap.

What I would like to see is the maps from the scenarios made available in standard games, multiplayer options for the scenarios, and ideally also civ-specific building/city graphics, with no change in price. Nevertheless, we do get new civ leader graphics with accompanying speech and phrases, which is a welcome touch you don't get with games like Total War (whose diplomacy screens are generic, so the Hattori won't get any more character than any clan in the main game, say).
 
They're making plenty of profit from DLCs for minimal cost. I don't see any evidence that there will be an expansion any time in the near future - why should they bother?

I can even see a significant downside to an expansion from the point of view of Firaxis. Civ 5 had an unusually negative fan response and an unusually high discrepancy between professional and fan reviews. It's very likely that the reviewers would have to acknowledge the shortcomings of Civ 5 (in effect, trying to re-establish credibility with the fans.) If the major issues are not fixed in an expansion they run the risk of having their game panned. And fixing the major issues will be very difficult, expensive, and quite possibly not achievable.
 
better diplomacy if the diplomacy system is still the same I don't gonne waste my money on the expansion


Especially the ridicoulous warmonger penalties
 
I.d Like the Espionage system back as well as some new Civs and Scenarios, new units, new buildings, new maps, Map trading, more diplomacy options (I don't actually find the A.I to be as bad as most people make it sound, but I play on King most of the time so I don't know if that has anything to do with it).

Civ 4 had various WWII scenarios that I think would be pretty fun in Civ 5 with the ranged attacks and various planes and such. They also had the cool scenario I loved where you played a fictional Civil War in Russia after the Collapse of the Soviet Union and you had to secure various Nukes, stuff like this would be super fun in the newest iteration. Even the 'Next War' scenario could be fun in Civ 5 because they could have cool sorts of new ranged units, like flying saucer-esque new planes or hovercraft type Planes. Civ 5 currently doesn't have any Modern Era DLC, but so many awesome Modern Era units like Paratroopers, Bombers Etc. that I think there is serious potential for some awesome Scenarios.

I'm not entirely sure what new units could be added, they have a lot of bases covered but I'm sure there's some in every era that could be added. A Few I have thought about are mostly later game but could be:

UAVs, I.E Predator Drones- They could have a bonus versus Land Units, negative Bonus against Cities. They're Re-usable unlike a Guided Missile, but similar otherwise.

Tactical Nukes, Allows Precision Bombing of resources or buildings

Possibly, but I don't even think its really a good idea just something I've thought about- a Missile Defense Unit, Either a ground unit similar to AA gun, or plane that can only Intercept. Or even a National Wonder like NORAD or something.

Only Building I really hope they add are Airports with the ability to Airlift Units.

Diplomacy Options, I'd like the amount of possible Positive Modifiers to be closer to the amount of possible Negatives. Currently you can only get a handful of Positives; 'We traded recently', 'declaration friendship', 'Denounced same leader', 'Friends with same leader', 'Fought common foe', 'Helped us out in time of need'. Whereas there are close to a dozen or more negatives; 'you denounced us', 'We denounced you', 'Competing for same City State', 'trying to win game in similar manner', 'We have been to war', 'You culture bombed us', 'you declared on a CS I like', 'You refused to help us', 'made declaration friendship with our sworn enemy', 'Ignored our request to stop settling near us', 'Built wonders we coveted', 'covet land you currently own' and possibly more I'm forgetting.

Also, you should be able to either buy back friendship or do something for A.I to regain some ground. There aren't any real life situations, that I know of, where 2 countries have been mortal enemies for 5000 years, which can happen in a game of Civ 5 if you start out close to someone else and things go awry. In reality, countries often have times of Diplomatic friendship then not so much, then back to friendship. Example being France and America, or a bunch of EU countries.

I obviously like the late game eras myself, and so think future expansions could be geared more towards that. If you look at it there is Ancient through Renaissance Era DLC, coming close to matching the Warlords pack for Civ 4, minus core additions like Vassals and Unique buildings. But no Industrial, Modern or Future Era DLC.

My theory is they're working on an expansion of later game stuff, but maybe after backlash from the earlier DLC they will actually release it all at once, as an expansion, at a cheaper price possibly with the option to buy separate pieces or civs at higher pricing like the current DLC. I think that would be the smartest on the Devs part. But I can't see them not putting out more stuff for the game because they have such a great tool for distribution with steam.
 
Another vote for better AI here. It would be nice if the AI could actually utilize their ships and land units properly in archipelago maps, half of them don't even build any ships at all and just sit there on islands with a million melee troops.
 
Where to start..?



9. Seriously penalise huge empires somehow. So many times have I seen a massive AI empire steamroll the map, and they only build up momentum. Probably due to happiness bonuses etc. Huge empires in real world history have always crumbled eventually. In Civ 5, they build up such a tech lead it's impossible to move them.


10. Change trading posts back into the cottage/town dynamic.




Amen to both of these!!!
 
They're making plenty of profit from DLCs for minimal cost. I don't see any evidence that there will be an expansion any time in the near future - why should they bother?

Although this is probably the way things will go (much as music is increasingly being sold by the track rather than by the album), most companies still put out expansions alongside DLC (again, just as the music industry both releases albums by their artists and licences them out to sites that sell tracks on a track-by-track basis). As mentioned, most DLC isn't useful game content (Civ V's being an exception in that regard), and despite having released DLC alongside their last three games, the Total War producers have also released an independent expansion for Empire and have announced an expansion for Shogun 2 - only Napoleon has had no full expansion.

I can even see a significant downside to an expansion from the point of view of Firaxis. Civ 5 had an unusually negative fan response and an unusually high discrepancy between professional and fan reviews. It's very likely that the reviewers would have to acknowledge the shortcomings of Civ 5 (in effect, trying to re-establish credibility with the fans.)

It's been argued that this is essentially what happened with Beyond the Sword to 'fix' issues raised with Civ IV. It's hardly bad publicity for a studio to acknowledge that it pays attention to player concerns. Practically every RTS, for example, has regular patches that address issues raised by forum communities.
 
I don't expect much. I'm not sure I really expect an expansion at all as piecemeal DLC is much more profitable.

I expect some padding out of the tech tree, which in comparison to previous Civ games is currently a bit lacking.

I expect a few more Civs, with the requisite UUs and UBs and possibly a scenario or two.

I expect a few more default units.

I expect some of the long time bugs to finally be worked out and some of the game's flaws to be remedied.

I expect some additional complexity, like espionage.

I expect an expansion to introduce more bugs and flaws.

What I want and what I expect do not necessarily tally.
 
This isn't a gripe thread but a question. If you were going to improve this game
what would you do?

Personally I think some things could be added like religion
and espionage. Many of the Civs could use balancing. But
I think this game would benefit most from a smarter AI.
What would you do?
 
This isn't a gripe thread but a question. If you were going to improve this game
what would you do?

Personally I think some things could be added like religion
and espionage. Many of the Civs could use balancing. But
I think this game would benefit most from a smarter AI.
What would you do?

All of the above.
 
Although this is probably the way things will go (much as music is increasingly being sold by the track rather than by the album), most companies still put out expansions alongside DLC (again, just as the music industry both releases albums by their artists and licences them out to sites that sell tracks on a track-by-track basis). As mentioned, most DLC isn't useful game content (Civ V's being an exception in that regard), and despite having released DLC alongside their last three games, the Total War producers have also released an independent expansion for Empire and have announced an expansion for Shogun 2 - only Napoleon has had no full expansion.



It's been argued that this is essentially what happened with Beyond the Sword to 'fix' issues raised with Civ IV. It's hardly bad publicity for a studio to acknowledge that it pays attention to player concerns. Practically every RTS, for example, has regular patches that address issues raised by forum communities.

Fair point. However, I think that the core problem is that the lack of stacking is simply a design flaw - in the sense that it's too complex for a small team of programmers to write good tactical AI for the Civ setup (e.g. no fixed maps, and a wide range of possible unit combinations.) I can't see them abandoning the combat model in any Civ 5 expansion, so fixing the core complaint about the game would be very, very difficult to do. Variants of it could do quite well in future versions, e.g. with a tactical map (no stacking) combined with strategic level stacking and possibly an army concept.

So, I should amend my statement to say that an expansion would make sense if you think that the problems could be fixed with a small team of programmers. I don't think this is true, thus no expansion.
 
(Sorry for bad English)

Well, first of all we need to work on the AI, both tactical/diplomatical. Then, I would try to remove all those happiness advantages the AI has (40 happiness while having 10 cities and 20 puppets? Come on!).

Later, I would do some rework on the tech tree. I'd make Classical last longer, and make sure that, while having a fair science production, you get into Classical in around 1500 - 1000 BC, and Medieval on the AD's. I also think there should be an era between Renaissance and Industrial (an era that covers from 1700 to 1850?)

I think a Machine Gun would be nice to add. A unit focused on defense, strong vs infantry and mounted units but weak vs armoured units, or something like that.

And what about letting units build forts, trenches or something like that? These ''improvements'' could give extra defense, but require maintenance and it removes other improvements (farm, trading post...).

Units should cost less on Epic/Marathon, I believe.

And what about some ''historical'' stadistics? I'd like to see an option that gives you information about cities (''real'' population number, times conquered, # of units built, when was it found, etc...). Maybe it is unnecesary, but I think it is an interesting idea so you can be more ''connected'' to your civ... You know what I mean?

Cultural differences between units from different civilizations would be in order (I just don't like all riflemen dressed in the same way, only changing their color).

When a city is captured, it should leave some of the original architecture (if New York is captured by China, it becomes 100% Chinese. I disagree on that). And if we're to do something awesome, I'd put new kinds of architecture when mixing two civs (that would be very difficult to program, but it would be nice!).

There you go my wish list. It is sad that some of then will never become true... :(

Edit -- Whoops, I was writing on other thread but my post ended here... :/
 
Fair point. However, I think that the core problem is that the lack of stacking is simply a design flaw - in the sense that it's too complex for a small team of programmers to write good tactical AI for the Civ setup (e.g. no fixed maps, and a wide range of possible unit combinations.) I can't see them abandoning the combat model in any Civ 5 expansion, so fixing the core complaint about the game would be very, very difficult to do. Variants of it could do quite well in future versions, e.g. with a tactical map (no stacking) combined with strategic level stacking and possibly an army concept.

I think this is a reasonable point, but at the same time is the combat system the key problem, or is the AI's willingness to use a combat system it's unsuited for the key problem? If the AI declared war less frequently, its inability to wage war would be a lot less obvious. True, aggressive player strategies would still be rewarded more than they should be, but little is quite as boring as being forced to continually defend against piecemeal attacks by an AI that can't fight, or to see an enemy declaration of war against you as a good thing because it promises to throw away a lot of resources.

Beyond that, I think there are certainly combat improvements that can be made which aren't so context-dependent as your suggestions. Cities, wherever located, are static targets - there are standard strategies for attacking them which the AI is at best intermittently capable of implementing. I can lose a city defended only by a ranged garrison unit to a Japanese attack that uses a lot of archers and a final push by a couple of Spearmen, but in the same game defend another against an unending horde of Mongol Warriors who never thought to bring bows to the party.

People have often observed that ranged units and siege often lead in AI strategies; Civ V's division of units into several key unit types (cavalry, spears, melee, ranged, siege) should make it easier to design algorithms dictating how these units should interact, what 'counters' what (how many times have I seen the AI waste cavalry against my pikemen?) etc. This, I presume, is how the more capable AI in Total War games makes decisions - and it will send spears specifically to head off a cavalry charge, and will usually defend its missile troops.

When defending a city, the AI should know to prioritise destroying the units that can actually take the city where possible, rather than just targeting whichever ranged unit dealt it damage last turn as seems to be the case now.

Terrain has fixed effects that the AI essentially seems to ignore - it will quite often attack across rivers when it has otherwise equal units, and will lose as a result.

A personal bugbear: Teach the AI to recognise how Citadels work, rather than having units that it calculates can't attack stand around like lummoxes taking damage. Related to this, it appears that the AI usually operates by calculating odds on a unit-by-unit basis - it will often stand around and not attack if it has three units surrounding yours, because none of those units can individually expect a victory. In the same situation, a human player would recognise that three attacks together would wipe out the enemy unit.

And one of the simplest of all: use unit upgrades. I don't think the AI ever does this, nor does it seem to recognise when a unit becomes obsolete - it will only start producing modern units when old ones become unavailable. It relies heavily on producing UUs, regardless of context or time period. In my current game it's the early 19th Century, and both I and the Arabs have riflemen. The Japanese have a high score to a giant empire, but they're still attacking with archers and Samurai. I wonder if the AI actively avoids researching technologies that will obsolete its favourite units? I'm sure I've played against Babylonians who don't seem to want to research Engineering before now.
 
Another vote for better AI here. It would be nice if the AI could actually utilize their ships and land units properly in archipelago maps, half of them don't even build any ships at all and just sit there on islands with a million melee troops.

I would like to see this to. They almost never do amphibious operations or use their navy correctly.
 
I would like to see this to. They almost never do amphibious operations or use their navy correctly.

Played a war-heavy late game for the first time in Civ V, and noticed that the AI has consistent problems with late-game units, apparently due to the different rules they introduce.

- The AI never attacks with bombers (maybe never makes them); if it doesn't have nukes it launches ground attacks with fighters.

- The AI has no concept of air defence; if my fighters keep intercepting its attacks, it will launch more anyway until it runs out. If my stealth bomber attacks its cities or nearby units, it won't invest in air defence, whether it's SAM batteries, AA gubs or fighters.

- The AI nukes targets without follow-up or having attackers anywhere near. Sometimes it launches 'sensible' nukes, such as those against cities newly-captured while my units are still in the area, but mostly it just throws them away, often targeting cities it couldn't reach with units if it wanted to.

- It treats helicopters as land units. In my last game there was a long-running attack on Brussels with a lot of Mongol rocket artillery. The city was reduced to 0 HP every turn through a combination of rocket attacks and bombing (from fighters) (I'd been defending with a battleship, but carelessly let it be destroyed), but with their only infantry having been destroyed the Mongols just kept sending helicopters to try and capture it, sometimes surrounding with three or so. Brussels just kept shooting helicopters down.
 
Played a war-heavy late game for the first time in Civ V, and noticed that the AI has consistent problems with late-game units, apparently due to the different rules they introduce.

- The AI never attacks with bombers (maybe never makes them); if it doesn't have nukes it launches ground attacks with fighters.

- The AI has no concept of air defence; if my fighters keep intercepting its attacks, it will launch more anyway until it runs out. If my stealth bomber attacks its cities or nearby units, it won't invest in air defence, whether it's SAM batteries, AA gubs or fighters.

- The AI nukes targets without follow-up or having attackers anywhere near. Sometimes it launches 'sensible' nukes, such as those against cities newly-captured while my units are still in the area, but mostly it just throws them away, often targeting cities it couldn't reach with units if it wanted to.

- It treats helicopters as land units. In my last game there was a long-running attack on Brussels with a lot of Mongol rocket artillery. The city was reduced to 0 HP every turn through a combination of rocket attacks and bombing (from fighters) (I'd been defending with a battleship, but carelessly let it be destroyed), but with their only infantry having been destroyed the Mongols just kept sending helicopters to try and capture it, sometimes surrounding with three or so. Brussels just kept shooting helicopters down.

I have many of the things you are saying. Especially when they have a city down to 0 HP but because you destroyed their only melee unit, they just sit there bombarding without another melee unit.

but in my current game for the first time ever in Civ 5 I saw an enemy using its fighter as an Interceptor. I was stunned to watch my AI team launch fighter just to watch them get shot down by the enemy fighter. I only saw one fighter defending and the remaining fighters the enemy had where attacking into my heavily gaurded airspace.

I was playing West vs East on Diety. The only mod I had on was the IGE. I don't know what caused that fighter to intercept but I was happy to finally see it happen.


and I would also like to see the AI annex cities everyonce in a while. So they can use those to build units.
 
- More complicated City States - name idea: "Rise of the City States".
- Much^10 better AI, and fewer AI bonuses\cheats to compensate
- At least one more UU\UB per civ, so each civ has 2 UUs and 1 UB, or even 3 UUs and 2 UBs (some civs my have better UUs and weaker UBs, or vice versa, but quantity-wise I'd like to see an even playing field).
- A more relaxed mode in which events act as a "rubber-band" i.e. runaway civs lose cities to losing civs through rebellion or something.
- (From NiGHTS) more gold but certain buildings have high maintenance, and more buildings overall to choose from.
- Edit: Espionage & information gathering.
- Edit: Trade.
- Edit: Religion, that relates to trade in such a way that human players have reason to be zealous about their religion outside of role-playing
 
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