what do you think will be included in a possible expansion?

Also strongly agree on bringing back international trade - which also opens the door to further diplomatic options such as embargoes on goods from Civ X, or other trade sanctions.

Civ IV and III had the option for trade embargos. I'm not sure why they got rid of international trade in CiV.

Diplomacy in Civ generally is, I think, too simplistic, and always has been for a game that relies heavily on it - you do bad things, the game gives you minuses to relations that ultimately have only one outcome - WAR. I think Civs should have more options for expressing and dealing with bad relations than just refusing deals and eventually declaring war on you.

It is true Diplomacy has always been a bit too simplistic. Religion, Espionage, and Tech Trading would add more flavor to international diplomacy. Most of my time spent engaging in Diplomacy in CiV is renegotiating Open Borders after they run out in 45 turns.

On Diplomacy Victory Overhaul . . .

What needs changing about the current one? Personally I think this is one of the major improvements in Civ V - no more "okay, I spam the map so I win" diplomatic victories that require no diplomacy, and it works with Civ V's more general efforts to broaden the variety of strategies that can be pursued. In earlier Civs, you always played the same way regardless of win condition - more cities.

Really? Diplomatic victories in previous versions of Civ didn't require actual diplomacy? Are you sure you don't have that the other way around? In CiV gaining a diplomacy victory is a simple three steps:

A) Spam cities and conquer major civilizations to get more land so you can get more gold.

B) Use the gold to buy off all the city-states so they'll vote for you.

C) Victory!
 
On Diplomacy Victory Overhaul . . .



Really? Diplomatic victories in previous versions of Civ didn't require actual diplomacy?

Not the way I played - diplo victory just required a simple population majority. Basically you play for a domination victory and just get it earlier if you've built the UN. It didn't give any sense of being a unique victory condition even to the extent the others did. And junior civs would tend not to abstain, but to vote for whoever represented the biggest threat if they didn't - so again waving an army outside their door did a lot more than any amount of diplomacy, and largely you could ignore them and just accrue their votes at the next UN session.

Are you sure you don't have that the other way around? In CiV gaining a diplomacy victory is a simple three steps:

A) Spam cities and conquer major civilizations to get more land so you can get more gold.

B) Use the gold to buy off all the city-states so they'll vote for you.

C) Victory!

I think it's not the victory condition that needs changing, it's the influence mechanic. I'd favour one which allows you to buy friendship with another Civ, up to the maximum friendship threshold, but that forces you to earn allied status by completing their quests etc. Particularly since as it stands, the Patronage tree makes it nearly impossible to lose allied status once gained.

Come to that, diplo victory would be a lot harder if the AI was adjusted to target city states, both to preferentially ally with them, and to actively destroy them if they were unshakeably in the camp of another civilization. In multiplayer you always see bidding wars over city states, but I've never yet had an AI trump my ally status with a city state by buying more influence over it - and only occasionally by an AI happening to complete a city-state quest.

Phil
 
I am hopeful that the reason why we don't have the full SDK yet is because they are working on adding espionage at a minimum, and also probably religion, back to ciV. If they weren't planning on any game rule-changing expansion/DLC, why hold back on the SDK?

As far as changes to Diplomacy victory, the only things I would like to see are:
- Add more city-state quest point opportunities
- Consider renaming to Economic victory (particularly if you don't add more city-state quest point opportunities)

I too prefer the ciV version of the Diplomatic victory to the cIV version, which seemed to be a "yawn, I'm bored of seeking domination, so I'll vote myself as UN leader by the unrealistic population model...and requiring one AI vote? No problem, since I've gone down the path of domination I have 5 vassals anyway..."

As far as actual diplomacy, though, adding more to it like map trading and stuff like that would be highly desirable!
 
-Map trading back. What was the point of removing this? Do they think its funny to have to explore every inch on the map.
-Remove RAs and bring tech trading back. Another overhaul that just failed.
-Make diplo meaningful.

You are so right map trading needs to come back in a big way. I agree with tech trades and making diplomacy meaningful as well. With all the backbiting and spy networks in history including turncoats and infiltrators, and men paid for the gathering of information. Spies need to be entered back into the game. It is so hard to find out about your enemies and their is no sabotage or assassinations. The way they have CiV setup the Ides of March never occurred! Caesar would certainly be happy about that, but not me! :lol: Religion as well in some form, should be added. Remember religions were created by men!
 
-Map trading back. What was the point of removing this? Do they think its funny to have to explore every inch on the map.
-Remove RAs and bring tech trading back. Another overhaul that just failed.
-Make diplo meaningful.

Map trading was good & it can bed added through a patch.

-Remove RAs and bring tech trading back. Another overhaul that just failed.

That is not really a good idea. They need to improve it, not to scrap it completely. It is actually more interesting than tech trading which was not even historically correct. So my suggestion is that they improve the weak concepts like CS diplomacy, RAs, AI odd behaviours etc.
 
Many good points here! Here is my wish list:
- the return of map trading
- expanded city state options and quests (it's getting really tedious to hear everyone wanting to eliminate the other all the time)
- overhaul of the diplomacy system, and more ways to influence your opponents. More benefits for declarations of friendship.
- more civilizations, especially African and (Meso-) South American.
- a way to work religion into the game, perhaps through the social policies. There HAS to be a way to put such a large portion of world history into a game without making it to dominant, like they did with cIV. Maybe religious city states?
- more units and resources.
- more wonders.
- new leaders for existing civs (although I realize it is pointless if the UA remains the same).
 
A lot of things... But for me the Nº1 improvement is speeding up the time between turns... PLEASE!

PS: I have a decent PC BTW...
 
Not the way I played - diplo victory just required a simple population majority. Basically you play for a domination victory and just get it earlier if you've built the UN. It didn't give any sense of being a unique victory condition even to the extent the others did. And junior civs would tend not to abstain, but to vote for whoever represented the biggest threat if they didn't - so again waving an army outside their door did a lot more than any amount of diplomacy, and largely you could ignore them and just accrue their votes at the next UN session.

Phil

Except in Civ IV you didn't have to play the way you did for a domination victory. Diplomatic victory was more challenging in that you could also do it by having a smaller empire and carefully managing diplomacy. In CiV it basically requires you to conquer a bunch so you can buy off more city-states.

Also, in my experience civs would vote for whoever they liked best, and I've been surprised before when one of my vassals had the gall not to vote for me.
 
Many good points here! Here is my wish list:
- the return of map trading
- expanded city state options and quests (it's getting really tedious to hear everyone wanting to eliminate the other all the time)

I think the existing quests cover pretty much everything - after all they include (in my experience):

- Obtain Resource X
- Obtain Great Person X
- Build Wonder X
- Discover a Natural Wonder
- Give us units
- Kill Barbarians
- Destroy Barbarian encampments
- Destroy City State X

At least. The trouble is the way and the frequency with which they're triggered - everything's there, the 'wrong' missions just get triggered too often. In particular, it is only minimally context-dependent - they'll ask for help vs. Barbarians if, indeed, they're under attack by barbarians. But they'll only ask for military help against another Civ if that Civ declared war the previous turn, regardless of whether they're actually being physically attacked, and not if they *are* being physically attacked but they were on the side that started the war, or the war started more than a few turns previously. The Destroy City State one is particularly bad; without an inter-CS diplomacy mechanic there's no actual justification for this coming up, and it never relates to whether or not those two city states have ever been at war (because their allies have, for example). This should be triggered much less often, and mainly in specific circumstances (and not, for example, if the city-states are at opposite ends of the world but somehow know one another because, although they have to meet civilizations, they always know every other city-state).

- overhaul of the diplomacy system, and more ways to influence your opponents. More benefits for declarations of friendship.

Agreed. Introducing denouncement, declarations of friendship etc. makes diplomacy look deceptively sophisticated for someone new to Civ V - right up until you realise they don't actually seem to do anything, and you can declare friendship with someone one turn and have them declare war on you the next. I think it should offer greater favour from the friendly Civ in terms of trade and deals, perhaps allow international trade, but be offset by greater penalties in relations for refusing their offers, not supporting them if they go to war etc.

- more civilizations, especially African and (Meso-) South American.

I'm happy enough for Civs to be added through DLC - in the year since release, a full quarter of the game's civilizations are DLC civs. However, I would like some essentially cosmetic changes to the way DLC civs are handled - each should have its own graphical style for architecture, and it would be good if a new civ-thematic Wonder was added with each (either as a World Wonder or as a new type of national wonder that is only available to that civilization); after all they have scenario wonders like Domesday Book - e.g. to take a wholly random example, if the Khmer were added, they could have the Bayon as a wonder, Indonesia could have Borodbodur, Zimbabwe Great Zimbabwe etc.

In terms of Civs, I want the Khmer back (and the Dutch, for all that European civs are inevitably overrepresented), but I agree that I'd like some of the African civilizations. I like the Merina due to their relative obscurity and my interest in Madagascar, but from a historical relevance perspective there really should be a Swahili empire in Civ.

- a way to work religion into the game, perhaps through the social policies. There HAS to be a way to put such a large portion of world history into a game without making it to dominant, like they did with cIV. Maybe religious city states?

I don't think religion is intended to be absent - after all, there are religious techs, there are temples etc. There's just no intent to treat it separately. The key thing people seemed to like about it was the diplomacy aspect and the fact that empires could share religion. It would be good to see this aspect come back, but I'm not sure how it would be done without causing at least some of the same problems with exclusive religions that Civ IV had.

- more units and resources.
- more wonders.

What would more resources really do? I'd like to see some complexity added back to the ones we now have - which mostly just give the same +1 X bonus to whatever terrain they're found in.

More units/wonders I'm happy to leave to DLC. I do want more natural wonders (not more per game - you'd get the same number per game, but a random selection from the available options). The choices they've made for the few in this game are weird to say the least, not least because two of them are 'wonders' that never actually existed.

- new leaders for existing civs (although I realize it is pointless if the UA remains the same).

To be honest it was a bit of a gimmick anyway. Aside from the fact that you keep the same special unit(s) and building(s), it essentially amounts to playing a different civ - and in Civ V the units and buildings often seem to be selected specifically to complement the UA (oh what a coincidence, I get an extra great general bonus to each of my attacks and also just happen to have a ranged unit that can fire twice a turn), or at least to balance them (Korea has one of the strongest UAs, but both its unique units are of more limited/specialised utility than the units they replace - they wait longer than everyone else to get a siege unit because the Hwach'a can't attack cities, and longer than everyone else to cross the ocean because the Turtle Ship is confined to coastal squares).
 
A lot of things... But for me the Nº1 improvement is speeding up the time between turns... PLEASE!

PS: I have a decent PC BTW...

If we're talking about things that need a patch fix, no. 1 for me would be fixing the bug that makes the game crash whenever I try playing with Direct X 10 or 11. I too have a decent PC - new model as of the beginning of this year, when I bought it, and one that I bought specifically with the ability to play games.

No. 2 would be accelerating loading times - both when starting/loading a game, and when running the program. Don't get me wrong - Civ V has what I think may be the best computer game intro movie ever made, but the voiceover gets boring and I'd rather not hear the first half every time I run the game because the computer takes 5 minutes to register that I've hit ESC.

Except in Civ IV you didn't have to play the way you did for a domination victory. Diplomatic victory was more challenging in that you could also do it by having a smaller empire and carefully managing diplomacy. In CiV it basically requires you to conquer a bunch so you can buy off more city-states.

Also, in my experience civs would vote for whoever they liked best, and I've been surprised before when one of my vassals had the gall not to vote for me.

I don't think it's the case that Civ V requires you to conquer anyone, except perhaps the odd unaffordable city state to take it out of the equation - I've not had trouble raising funds to buy city state allies, which is another issue in itself as I've alluded to before. The interesting thing is that the issue hinges on the city-states - if Civ IV had had the 'real UN' one nation, one vote victory condition Civ V has, diplomacy victories would have forced the type of play you suggest, rather than being most commonly a semi-domination victory. Once again, the victory condition itself is not the thing that needs changing in my view - rather it will become more interesting if other, less specifically-targeted changes are made that improve CS play generally.
 
I would like to get an international traderoute to any capital with whom I share open borders, the capitals are often large so it would give quite a bit of gold, especially the harbor connected ones. This could give you a reason to have a navy, to guard this income.
It would also give a reason to have peacefull relations with your neighbour.
Having this with city states would pay for their cost so that would end up being unbalanced.

I would also really like to expand on the city state relationsships. It bugs me that they get stuck in the kill quests. You can delay this if you invest early, but still...
 
General Answer:

1) A focus on the modern era.

When CivV was rushed out to generate income for 2k, they stopped the production process by Firaxis. But Firaxis had begun to develop CivV chronologically which means that the ancient era is well thought out, and then the quality slowly deteriorates until we arrive at the simple Nuke system, the omnipotent Air units (but not airport building f.e.) and the oversimplified United Nations system.

2) regarding new systems: not too many, please; but rather a rework of some old one:

City States Influence is too random and too gold related as you can quickly buy them out, so there's no strategy needed, just gold. If you f.e. make the gold gifts work like Research Agreement (pay now, reward later), you fix a lot. Gold gifts can give small amount of influence to counter small points, but not the huge amounts we see now.

This would also then fix the Diplomatic Victory which I think is better than in civIV due to the fact that everybody got one vote. But add in the old things. Espionage can be had here, if you can think of a simple system

International Trade Routes was kicked out of civV as it was thought of as too complex to understand (and used up lots of ressources for few effects). So a new system should take into account the health/bonus ressources now as well.

Religion is somehow implemented already so I don't see a good way to reintroduce it.

Stability is something I would love as well but it seems unlikely.

-> Now if you take a look, we already have 4-6 new/overhauled systems (Air Fight, Diplomacy/DiploVictory, Espionage, International Trade, Religion, ...) so it's impossible to implement them all in a good coherent way. So which to chose?

Generally speaking, new Civs are just flavour; new units, techs, buildings and wonders however need to make sense in the gameplay (regarding to one of the systems) and not just be added for addition.
 
I feel it will be somewhat balanced between the two extremes - 'hardcore' and 'casual'. The expansion will almost certainly include one brand new mechanic (by brand-new; I mean something that has not been seen in a CIV title before, hard to speculate on this); and two or three 'returning' mechanics, although watered down. This could probably include a simplified espionage system (spies only, like CivRev), a simplified 'health' system, a simplified 'religion' system, some sort of slavery option, and/or a simplified 'corporation' system.

The expansion will almost assuredly also contain a few new CIVs (which have not previously been offered via DLC, with the exception of Babylon), a few new wonders (most likely those which HAVE been added by DLC, along with 2 or 3 new ones), a few changes to the tech tree AND a few new techs, a few minor changes to the social policies (unless some new feature requires a more substantial change), a few new combat units (probably like 3), and I also would not be not surprised to see a few new luxury resources, although probably there will be only one.

Oh, and as for 'wishes'? I hope there will be a few new natural wonders. I also hope there will be checkbox to disable 'fantasy' wonders. Lastly, an option to remember our 'advance setup' options, and a regenerate map button (which may be harder than most people realize, with the ways the new maps are scripted toward starting bias and city state placement, but I can hope!)!
 
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