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What does it even mean when a civ is "plotting against you"?

Arms Longfellow

Arms Longfellow

Warlord
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
184
I used to be scared when I received this message, but have since learned that it is obviously not the same thing as finding out that they have an army marching toward one of your cities. Seems like even civs that have 6 green diplo points and 0 reds eventually "plot against me", but nothing comes of it. So I don't care anymore when I receive this piece of information, should I?
 
As best as I can tell, it means the plotting civ has done a comparison between your strength and theirs, and is now considering whether or not to attack?

As far as I know the stages are:
- Plotting
- Amassing an Army
- Launched Sneak Attack

Which to me translates to:
- Thinking about it
- Building more military
- Here it comes!
 
I have no idea what it means. I recently had a civ tell me that another civ launched a sneak attack against me. He had to come across an ocean to do it so I sent out a few ships to find him and I never saw any units coming for me.
 
Also confused by these messages. What usually happens in my games is that those who are plotting against another civ almost never end up actually going to war, while those who actually start the war never let my spy know anything about it.
 
It means it's time to bribe that civ to go to war with somebody. Or bribe somebody else to go to war with that civ.
 
From the C++ header file for espionage classes CvEspionageClasses.h:

Code: 
enum CvIntrigueType // What intrigue was uncovered?
{
    INTRIGUE_TYPE_DECEPTION,			    // A civ is lying to another civ
    INTRIGUE_TYPE_BUILDING_ARMY,		    // A civ is amassing an army
    INTRIGUE_TYPE_BUILDING_AMPHIBIOUS_ARMY, // A civ is amassing an army to attack over the water
    INTRIGUE_TYPE_ARMY_SNEAK_ATTACK,	    // A civ is sending an army toward another civ
    INTRIGUE_TYPE_AMPHIBIOUS_SNEAK_ATTACK,  // a civ is sending a land invasion across the water toward another civ
    INTRIGUE_TYPE_CONSTRUCTING_WONDER,		// A civ is constructing a wonder
    NUM_INTRIGUE_TYPES
};

In the case of the plotting message, it is triggered by the class INTRIGUE_TYPE_DECEPTION, which is the type assigned to the APPROACH_DECEPTIVE diplomatic stance of the AI.

In other words, when an AI civ is faking her attitude towards the player, and a spy uncovers that, you get the "is plotting against you" message. There is no direct action involved yet, but there may be in the near future if the AI civ approach stance worsens.

You are welcome. ;)

see below for more specific code related to that type of intrigue:
Spoiler :

Code: 
case INTRIGUE_TYPE_DECEPTION:
			{
				Localization::String strSummary;
				Localization::String strNotification;
				if(kMessage.m_eTargetPlayer == m_pPlayer->GetID())  // if we found intrigue related to us
				{
					strSummary = Localization::Lookup("TXT_KEY_NOTIFICATION_INTRIGUE_PLOTTING_AGAINST_YOU_S");
					if(GC.getGame().isGameMultiPlayer() && GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).isHuman())
					{
						strSummary << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNickName();
					}
					else
					{
						strSummary << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNameKey();
					}

					strNotification = Localization::Lookup("TXT_KEY_NOTIFICATION_INTRIGUE_PLOTTING_AGAINST_YOU");
					strNotification << GetSpyRankName(m_aSpyList[uiSpyIndex].m_eRank);
					strNotification << m_pPlayer->getCivilizationInfo().getSpyNames(m_aSpyList[uiSpyIndex].m_iName);
					CvAssertMsg(pCity, "City should be defined but is null");
					if(pCity)
					{
						strNotification << pCity->getNameKey();
					}
					if(GC.getGame().isGameMultiPlayer() && GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).isHuman())
					{
						strNotification << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNickName();
					}
					else
					{
						strNotification << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNameKey();
					}
				}
				else if(kMessage.m_eTargetPlayer == NO_PLAYER)  // if we don't know who the intrigue information is about
				{
					strSummary = Localization::Lookup("TXT_KEY_NOTIFICATION_INTRIGUE_PLOTTING_AGAINST_UNKNOWN_S");
					if(GC.getGame().isGameMultiPlayer() && GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).isHuman())
					{
						strSummary << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNickName();
					}
					else
					{
						strSummary << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNameKey();
					}

					strNotification = Localization::Lookup("TXT_KEY_NOTIFICATION_INTRIGUE_PLOTTING_AGAINST_UNKNOWN");
					strNotification << GetSpyRankName(m_aSpyList[uiSpyIndex].m_eRank);
					strNotification << m_pPlayer->getCivilizationInfo().getSpyNames(m_aSpyList[uiSpyIndex].m_iName);
					CvAssertMsg(pCity, "City should be defined but is null");
					if(pCity)
					{
						strNotification << pCity->getNameKey();
					}
					if(GC.getGame().isGameMultiPlayer() && GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).isHuman())
					{
						strNotification << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNickName();
					}
					else
					{
						strNotification << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNameKey();
					}
				}
				else // if we found intrigue related to another player
				{
					strSummary = Localization::Lookup("TXT_KEY_NOTIFICATION_INTRIGUE_PLOTTING_AGAINST_KNOWN_S");
					if(GC.getGame().isGameMultiPlayer() && GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).isHuman())
					{
						strSummary << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNickName();
					}
					else
					{
						strSummary << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNameKey();
					}

					if(GC.getGame().isGameMultiPlayer() && GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eTargetPlayer).isHuman())
					{
						strSummary << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eTargetPlayer).getNickName();
					}
					else
					{
						strSummary << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eTargetPlayer).getNameKey();
					}

					strNotification = Localization::Lookup("TXT_KEY_NOTIFICATION_INTRIGUE_PLOTTING_AGAINST_KNOWN");
					strNotification << GetSpyRankName(m_aSpyList[uiSpyIndex].m_eRank);
					strNotification << m_pPlayer->getCivilizationInfo().getSpyNames(m_aSpyList[uiSpyIndex].m_iName);
					CvAssertMsg(pCity, "City should be defined but is null");
					if(pCity)
					{
						strNotification << pCity->getNameKey();
					}
					if(GC.getGame().isGameMultiPlayer() && GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).isHuman())
					{
						strNotification << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNickName();
					}
					else
					{
						strNotification << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eSourcePlayer).getNameKey();
					}

					if(GC.getGame().isGameMultiPlayer() && GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eTargetPlayer).isHuman())
					{
						strNotification << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eTargetPlayer).getNickName();
					}
					else
					{
						strNotification << GET_PLAYER(kMessage.m_eTargetPlayer).getNameKey();
					}
				}
				pNotifications->Add(NOTIFICATION_INTRIGUE_DECEPTION, strNotification.toUTF8(), strSummary.toUTF8(), -1, -1, kMessage.m_eTargetPlayer);
			}
			break;
 
Arms Longfellow said:
I used to be scared when I received this message, but have since learned that it is obviously not the same thing as finding out that they have an army marching toward one of your cities. Seems like even civs that have 6 green diplo points and 0 reds eventually "plot against me", but nothing comes of it. So I don't care anymore when I receive this piece of information, should I?
Click to expand...

You should in the sense that those nice greenies are the ones that the plotting AI wants you to see, while hiding all the negatives (this is the APPROACH_DECEPTIVE stance). The negative modifiers could be much worse than the greenies the AI is letting you see, and could very well mean war in the near future.

In higher levels, you should take action when you see the message, if only "aggressive diplomatic" actions... ;) :D
 
Generally I notice deception when an AI displays as Friendly with no green modifiers - usually just the white "No major incidents".
 
If someone is plotting against you they are likely to attack you soon unless your army starts to outmatch theirs suddenly or they get distracted by for e.g. getting into a fight with someone else. At the very least it means you won't be friends with this civ (at least non that won't hesitate to backstab you as soon as the chance to arises).
 
It basicly means the AI is deceptive and is lying to you and pretents to be friendly but actualy will try to stop you


youcan see this actualy pretty easy : will not vote for you're resolutions and will propose ban luxuries you have to slow you down .
 
I got that warning from other Civs numerous times, especially in later eras.
But the ONLY time the warning is accurate is once.

I was playing a Shoshone game, I have a Babylonian neighbor;
then the Assyrians warned me about the Babylonians plotting against me,
as usual I ignored it, but at the next turn the Babylonians launched an Invasion against me.

So, I simply don't know what the warnings are supposed to mean generally, its often inaccurate and even sometimes your rival tells you about that information (Which in my opinion is a bit unrealistic)
 
I get them quite often, due to ignoring the army side of things.

Had it once from Austria, about the Celts. Sent a scout in that direction, and there they were, Celtic soldiers wanting my one and only city. Pumped 3 archers and sent them back.

The rest of times, when I hear the bell ring, pump a few more units than usual, and nothing will come my way, as all of a sudden I'll end up 2nd or 3rd in military strength.

There's also the times when I just make the back-stabber... start a war with someone else, or my personal favorite, with an ally, and everyone turns their arms against him.
 
Reus said:
So, I simply don't know what the warnings are supposed to mean generally, its often inaccurate and even sometimes your rival tells you about that information (Which in my opinion is a bit unrealistic)
Click to expand...

Depends. If your rival is warning you about an ally plotting against you, they're hoping to erode relations or prove your relations aren't as solid as you believe. I've done this in my current game warning Brazil that India was plotting against them trying to erode the DoF between the two strongest AI.... I really want India isolated and friendless so I can eliminate them before Modern, I do not want to deal with Gandhi having an nuclear arsenal.
 
I tend to look at things like in real life: if someone came by me and said `Jon over there is plotting against you, friend,` then left, I would be wondering what this `plot` was.

So I would keep an eye on Jon, being cautious whenever he was around. Anything weird happen, I would consider maybe it was Jon`s fault. Perhaps i`d even start plotting against Jon too or even attack him first. Maybe I`d talk to him and try to be friends, even to stop problems. If nothing happened then I`d consider that maybe Jon`s plan didn`t work or the stranger was mistaken\lying.

I wouldn`t expect the warning to guarantee Jon was going to attack me.

Of course, in reality with a Human, I`d consider many other things, but that`s the basics.
 
Socratatus said:
I tend to look at things like in real life: if someone came by me and said `Jon over there is plotting against you, friend,` then left, I would be wondering what this `plot` was.

So I would keep an eye on Jon, being cautious whenever he was around. Anything weird happen, I would consider maybe it was Jon`s fault. Perhaps i`d even start plotting against Jon too or even attack him first. Maybe I`d talk to him and try to be friends, even to stop problems. If nothing happened then I`d consider that maybe Jon`s plan didn`t work or the stranger was mistaken\lying.

I wouldn`t expect the warning to guarantee Jon was going to attack me.

Of course, in reality with a Human, I`d consider many other things, but that`s the basics.
Click to expand...

That's basically the prisoner's dilemma that guides international relations in real life :D
 
Aristos said:
You should in the sense that those nice greenies are the ones that the plotting AI wants you to see, while hiding all the negatives (this is the APPROACH_DECEPTIVE stance). The negative modifiers could be much worse than the greenies the AI is letting you see, and could very well mean war in the near future.

In higher levels, you should take action when you see the message, if only "aggressive diplomatic" actions... ;) :D
Click to expand...

And one of the best (most constant) Civ to observe this with is Germany. In some games if you have a lot of friends you often start getting multiple reports that Bismarck is plotting against you, then your own spy, especially if he's high ranking, also get a string of reports and basically Bismarck is suddenly being deceptive with everyone. That's usually when he's building an army and will soon give someone a "Sorry, your weakness is my opportunity" DoW. He ends up picking one of the weakest targets he's been "plotting against", DoF or not.

Other Civs seem to pick a target right away, but the AI Bismarck seems to decide on aggressive expansion first and picks the best target for his war when he's ready.
 
EK834 said:
And one of the best (most constant) Civ to observe this with is Germany. In some games if you have a lot of friends you often start getting multiple reports that Bismarck is plotting against you, then your own spy, especially if he's high ranking, also get a string of reports and basically Bismarck is suddenly being deceptive with everyone. That's usually when he's building an army and will soon give someone a "Sorry, your weakness is my opportunity" DoW. He ends up picking one of the weakest targets he's been "plotting against", DoF or not.

Other Civs seem to pick a target right away, but the AI Bismarck seems to decide on aggressive expansion first and picks the best target for his war when he's ready.
Click to expand...

Code: 
<Row>
	<LeaderType>LEADER_BISMARCK</LeaderType>
	<MajorCivApproachType>MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_DECEPTIVE</MajorCivApproachType>
	<Bias>7</Bias>
</Row>
 
plotting doesn't always mean immediate invasion, sometimes they just denounce or propose an embargo.
for example, in my last game I got info that the Netherlands is plotting against me. we have open borders, luxury trades, and even DOF. then I started a little warmongering. the very first civ to denounce me was, of course, Netherlands.
Could never trust the denizens of the netherworld, I tell you! :satan:
 
Plotting sometimes doesn't escalate further. I wouldn't be surprised at all if all it means it that the AI is "pretending to be friends".
 
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