What Firaxis is Teaching Us

[Midnight Rider]

Don't buy the game when it comes out. Don't even buy it when the expansion pack comes out. Wait until they have a combo pack a year after the fact.

I'm sorry guys, but Firaxis should have put every bit of this in Civ3.

When Civ4 comes out, I'm not getting it unless I play a demo and like it, or get good word of mouth.

 

[Graeme the mad]

Hello - my gods Zouave youve changed

GET LOST

 

[Midnight Rider]

I just realized how lack of depth it is AS is. I hope they were just finding out what we want, and going from there, but I see a LOT of game companies pulling stunts like this, and it makes me MAD

 

[jerosen]

If we had all applied this logic from the start then none of us would have bought Civ 1 or Civ 2. Then there would not be Civ 3 for you moan and whine about...

Jim

 

[God]

Going from Civ3Lover to Civ3Hater? Why don't you just change your name again?

I just realized how lack of depth it is AS is. I hope they were just finding out what we want, and going from there, but I see a LOT of game companies pulling stunts like this, and it makes me MAD

Don't buy PC games anymore. Just go for good ole' console games. They don't have all the XP business.

 

[Midnight Rider]

I like PC Games. I like Firaxis. I only chose to vent here because Civ3 is the game I'm most disenchanted with. I like playing it still, but it kills me to have to wait so long to play it the way it was supposed to be played six months ago.

Just my .02

You guys are pretty darned hostile, ya know that?

 

[God]

Aaahh this topic is going to be closed like your previous one.

Ofcourse we're going to be hostile if you come into a CivFanatics forum, and start saying Civ 3 is bad. Anyway we aren't that bad. I think you just haven't seen enough people IRL to compare them to us. We're timid compared to people you could meet at school or on the street.

 

[Midnight Rider]

I don't even think Civ3 is bad. I LOVE it, but I want the game companies to put more effort into their games. EVERYTHING is coming up with an expansion pack that makes it new and improved, and all it is is a way to stick it to the consumer. The fact that Civ3 had planned Play The World before just sort of shows that they would have us starving for more, and then giving it to us later. Believe me, bros... I'm buying that expansion pack the *DAY*... You hear me? THE ***DAY*** it comes out, but I feel so manipulated.

 

[Kilroy]

Originally posted by Midnight Rider
You guys are pretty darned hostile, ya know that?

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT FIRAXIS! I LOVE THEM. I WANT TO HAVE SID'S MANBABIES.

Didn't you say something to this effect less than a month ago?

 

[Catt]

EDIT: Post more appropriate as a PM. MIdnight Rider check your PM.

 

[Midnight Rider]

And the attacks continue. "DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS!!! DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS!!! HUH!!! DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS!"

For chrissakes, a guy can change his mind can't he! And it's not even THAT much of a change. I just realized I'm being toyed with, and just don't LIKE it very much.

 

[Midnight Rider]

AND!!! FURTHERMORE!!! I still enjoy the hell out of the game, but I'm venting it here because this is the game that's the most important for me. I'll spend the bucks to play it, but I don't appreciate being manipulated like this! I wonder how many people here AREN'T kids who actually have JOBS and have to make a SACRIFICE to get these games! I'm a married guy making barely 30K a year, supporting a family all by myself, and paying all the bills. It's a LUXURY that I get to spend $50.00 on something. I only buy 3 or 4 games a year.

Jayzus, why don't you all just SHOOT me. If I'm wrong, prove me wrong, don't just attack my character. I think it's STUPID not to be able to change your mind!

 

[Exile_Ian]

At the risk of being accused of attacking ....

Do you really think you haven't had $50 worth of value from Civ 3 despite its flaws? Add up the hours of fun/challenge/interest you've had, subtract the hours of frustration and divide into $50. Personally, I've had more enjoyment from Civ3 than any previous $50 I can recall. (Jeez when I compare it to the Mariners game when we lost against Baltimore last Saturday at $40 a seat ....).

That to me is the important point. I've wasted hundreds of $ over the years on game that I played once or twice and abandoned. Civ 3 joins a fairly small list (along with AOE, SimCity, Civ II and MS Golf) of games where the replay value was exceptional. I'll stick with Firaxis thanks - they do makes mistakes - but they also listen and improve.

Quick calculation: average 15 hours a week of play (probably a whole lot more) x approx 25 wks = 375 hours. $50 / 375 = 13c per hour. It's probably more like < 10c if I really worked out the nbr of hours - and I don't believe I'm going to stop playing any time soon. Now tell me again why I wouldn't be tempted to repeat that experience with a Civ XP or even Civ 4?

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by Midnight Rider
Don't buy the game when it comes out. Don't even buy it when the expansion pack comes out. Wait until they have a combo pack a year after the fact.

I'm sorry guys, but Firaxis should have put every bit of this in Civ3.

When Civ4 comes out, I'm not getting it unless I play a demo and like it, or get good word of mouth.

You are 100% correct.

Firaxis has also taught us that MARKETING is of far more concern to them than game design or their consuming public.

And it's not just the money. I've wasted a lot of TIME dealing with bugs, flaws, missing features, having to Edit their idiotic values, and other stuff - the results of marketing a beta game in November,

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by Midnight Rider
And the attacks continue. "DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS!!! DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS!!! HUH!!! DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS!"

For chrissakes, a guy can change his mind can't he! And it's not even THAT much of a change. I just realized I'm being toyed with, and just don't LIKE it very much.

It's called SEEING THE LIGHT. When Firaxis leaves out vital features such as scenarios, scenario-building, MP, etc, and then plans to sell them to us later, you bet you are being "toyed with".

I congratulate you on your perspicacity!

 

[TrailblazingScot]

I bet a signpost fell on his head and he'll be better in the morning

 

[MuddyOne]

How many hours have you enjoyed it? It probably works out to a very good cost per hour of enjoyment.

Had the editor fix been in the expansion, I could understand feeling cheated. It is going to be in an upcoming patch. I don't recall whether MP was advertised as being part of Civ3. It isn't that important to me. It is generally geared towards RTSs, not turn based. Turned based is what draws me to Civ3, not to the morass of RTSs that have came out. If MP was advertised for Civ3 then you should feel cheated as well.

It is annoying that companies rush products to market, and then require patches to correct problems. NOt everyone has internet connections to download the patches. Unfortunately, it is now the norm.

 

[Midnight Rider]

Of course I've enjoyed it! But in playing, I have to admit that the experience has gotten sour during some games, due to map sizes, etc. I will never play on a map bigger than standard. I still like the game, please don't get me wrong there, but I feel like I've been grossly toyed with. Top off that with the fact that they only gave us, what... ten civs or so? There are great features in civ2 that aren't in civ3.

I just feel a little manipulated, and a LITTLE betrayed by Firaxis. I got caught up with the hype, and I liked their patch so much, that there was a honeymoon period. I've honestly played civ3 probably 50 hours or so total. So I guess that brings my total to $1.00 per hour. Was it worth it? POSSIBLY, but I don't exactly like being scammed. It's an OBVIOUS scam.

I really don't have that many gripes about the game, but when I see what's coming with the expansion, it's PRECISELY the stuff I thought they'd have put in the initial release. The expansion pack should be something with a unit graphics editor, a unit maker, a custom civ leader builder (like facemaker or something) and 10 new obscure civilizations.

I don't hate firaxis OR civ3, but I feel like I've been taken for a ride.

 

[sumthinelse]

Originally posted by Zouave


Firaxis has also taught us that MARKETING is of far more concern to them than game design or their consuming public.

Marketing is built into all commercial products. I guess that's a tautology. We are all free to play games that are free on the web, but I don't think I was cheated in any way when I bought civ3.

As some other posters have pointed out, Infogames/Firaxis keeps making improvements, and IMO some of the Firaxis people went out of their way to put in features that we asked for.

I too b**ch about "stupid" aspects of civ3, but compared to Blizzard (which I abandoned in disgust), I think I am blessed with a sympathetic company here which is acting in good faith. And of course some aspects of game play have bugs or design flaws (both of which are very subjective of course).

But I also think that you have some great things to say, Zoave, and I am glad you are here contributing. I think we need a "diversity" of voices on this forum. Bear with us.

 

[God]

Originally posted by Midnight Rider
Of course I've enjoyed it! But in playing, I have to admit that the experience has gotten sour during some games, due to map sizes, etc. I will never play on a map bigger than standard. I still like the game, please don't get me wrong there, but I feel like I've been grossly toyed with. Top off that with the fact that they only gave us, what... ten civs or so? There are great features in civ2 that aren't in civ3.

I just feel a little manipulated, and a LITTLE betrayed by Firaxis. I got caught up with the hype, and I liked their patch so much, that there was a honeymoon period. I've honestly played civ3 probably 50 hours or so total. So I guess that brings my total to $1.00 per hour. Was it worth it? POSSIBLY, but I don't exactly like being scammed. It's an OBVIOUS scam.

I really don't have that many gripes about the game, but when I see what's coming with the expansion, it's PRECISELY the stuff I thought they'd have put in the initial release. The expansion pack should be something with a unit graphics editor, a unit maker, a custom civ leader builder (like facemaker or something) and 10 new obscure civilizations.

I don't hate firaxis OR civ3, but I feel like I've been taken for a ride.

16 civs were given. I suggest you play on a large map. Huge map is going a bit far with size but you should be able to handle large on any computer. It may get slow later on though.

Anyway most games nowdays cost $50. Its marketing, and I'm sure Firaxis loved making the game, but they have to make a living too. They have to pay for what they want. Everybody wants free games.