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What happens to promotions when creating corps and armies ?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by tedhebert, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    They could remove the promotions, and average the experience of the combined units.
     
  2. BrokenBokken

    BrokenBokken Warlord

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    Giving the army all of the promotions of the units worked very well in CivRev. However you could never build a unit with more than one promotion out of the gate, and you pretty much never used anything that wasn't an army (you didn't have to unlock the combine ability) other than exploring.
     
  3. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    There is also the issue of the Barracks/Armory/Academy/Shipyard ability. +25% experience, its not a promotion (and is not a fixed amount of experience).

    So that wouldn't work with the "refund and respend the exp"
     
  4. Abraxis

    Abraxis Emperor

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    My guess would be it's no different than if the units were separate in terms of calculations, the only difference is it all happens with only one click. For example, those two musketmen attack two others, it calculates each 1on1 fight under the animation of only a single battle.
     
  5. BrokenBokken

    BrokenBokken Warlord

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    This is wrong. We all ready know they get combined in to one unit with a single strength rating.
     
  6. cazaderonus

    cazaderonus Actual Dad.

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    And also it would appear that this rating is lower than the sum of 2 individual units rating.
     
  7. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    With the new combat system it would be crazy to have them just sum up. 2 Knights would be stronger than a Tank, 2 Swordsmen - equal to Infantry.
     
  8. Manetheren

    Manetheren Chieftain

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    I don't think the experience of each unit should disappear. I would like to see the experience retained and the ability to pick promotions for the corp/army. Any chance the promotions for a corp/army would be different than for single units?
     
  9. Big J Money

    Big J Money Emperor

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    Personally I think combining unique promotions is a great idea.

    It forces you to decide, will this unit stand alone or be part of a corps? If the latter, then some very simple management of promotions means you can double (and triple) the promotions on a stack through corps and armies. That's awesome. You get more utility faster at the expense of some max attack rating, maybe health, and terrain coverage. A great example of tactical tradeoffs, IMO. I prefer a design that doesn't make corps and armies always superior to single units.

    Edit: Oh and fleets (and I assume Armadas?)! A fleet that is good at attacking other ships, bombarding coastal units, and blockading cities. I always disliked how fast ships went down attacking cities and this will solve that. Yet there is a tradeoff if you use this approach.
     
  10. BrokenBokken

    BrokenBokken Warlord

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    Corps and Armies require 2 to 3 times as many hammers as single units. They have to be better than them pretty consistently or it will always be smarted not to make them.
     
  11. Nixalo

    Nixalo Warlord

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    My guess is the unit that moves into the still unit adds it's 100% of its XP and XX% of it's strength but not the promotions. The XX% is whatever Civ VI does to about half damage in combat to a normal unit.

    I suspect that a Corps/Fleet of a unit gets enough strength to deal ~50% more damage and take ~50% less damage for a the original unit.

    My guess is
    A musketman deals ~30 to another musketman and takes ~30.
    A muskerman corp deals ~50 to a musketman and takes about ~20.
     
  12. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    I think I heard something like:

    Corps has 125% offensive power of an individual unit of that type; but its hit points will be double that of a single unit.
    So a lot less powerful on offense than two adjoining units of the same type, but much better for defense.
    But also note that by this time, it's not really a choice between 2 regular units and a corps; it's between having 12 regular units / half of which aren't able to get close enough to participate in combat and 6 corps, all of which can.
     
  13. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    Developers said, corps are roughly 40% stronger than individual unit. However, we have no idea how it works in the new combat system. It could be as simple as +10, though.
     
  14. Aheadatime

    Aheadatime Prince

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    Almost positive it's going to work like CivRev. It's the most logical and seamless way to go about it. You combine two warriors with two different promotions, and the warrior army gets both promotions obviously. If I'm really good at hunting and I go camping with a friend who's really good at fishing, our little two-man group is now good at both hunting and fishing.

    Refunding exp is awkward and unintuitive. Why would the units who worked hard to receive a particular promotion just all of a sudden be handed the option to specialize in something entirely different? Where did their experience and history go? In the above example, why would my friend and I joining forces on a camping trip suddenly make us both suck at our aforementioned skills but really good at chess? It can also rid the units of some special promotions that cannot be chosen, like Civ5 Kilimanjaro for example.

    Promotions will not stack. So if you have two warriors with +5 Vs. Cities, the army will receive +5 Vs. Cities, not +10. Yes, this means that the most optimal way to form armies is to promote units in different ways before combining. However, as as KillMe noted, this isn't always an option and isn't always all that useful. If you're in the mid to late game for example, where everyone is using armies instead of individual units, how do you plan on keeping a single non-army infantry alive long enough to dip into the 4th tier of promotions, like Civ5's blitz? You probably can't, as you'll be facing superior forces in the form of armies, even if they're less promoted.
     
  15. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    I could see the Promotions combining.... but in that case the army should be at a higher level harder to get the next promotion.

    ie, say promotions at exp level 10, 30, 60 like civV

    2 Turtle Infantry (exp 15 and 20) combine..
    The corps has Turtle (exp 20 or 17.5?) and will get the next promotion at 30 exp (because it is only a level 1 unit)


    Turtle Infantry (exp 20) and Battlecry Infantry (exp 15) combine ..
    The corps has Turtle+Battlecry (exp 20 or 17.5?) but won't get another promotion until it reaches 60 exp (because it is a level 2 unit already)


    *This would apply to "promotions" only, abilities earned by coming from a barracks/armory encampment or being promoted from a UU or earned in a 'non experience' way wouldn't affect the level
     
  16. chaotoroboto

    chaotoroboto Warlord

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    Just to clarify, is that what you expect for Civ 6 solely because it's that way in Rev, or are there other things influencing that assessment? It makes sense to me, but does the 1UPT and Static Bonus nature of the promotions possibly change that? I've played Rev but it's been a minute. Does Rev have stacking or is it 1UPT?
     
  17. BrokenBokken

    BrokenBokken Warlord

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    CivRev had stacking
     
  18. SebNeg

    SebNeg Chieftain

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    There is another possible mechanic that has not been discussed yet:

    The promotions of one and only one unit could be carried over to the corps/fleet, and you select which unit this is. This could happen in two ways:

    (1) Implicitly: Forming a fleet involves selecting a unit A, using the "Form Fleet" action and then selecting an adjacent unit B. Unit A disappears, and unit B turns into a fleet and keeps its original promotions.

    (2) Explicitly: A popup dialog shows you the promotions of both units and you have to select which set of promotions you want to have.
     
  19. Big J Money

    Big J Money Emperor

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    We saw them form a fleet in a video and there was no popup. It could mean one of the units had no promotions I guess.

    And method #1 would be confusing and poor design... I very much doubt this is how it works.
     
  20. SebNeg

    SebNeg Chieftain

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    Or it could mean that the UI is not yet finished.
     

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