What is (not) allowed?

There is always a great deal of luck involved in Civ3. Think of a battle between your first warrior attacking the only city of an enemy (with only one warrior).

The only way of dealing with the army-from-goody-hut bug is saying you must reload once you get that. We can hardly ask people to do that. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by marshalljames
Then it seems the key to high scores is to get heroic epic early and Military Academy get great leaders and rush every single wonder.
I don't think there is a single "the key", aside from military aggression. (Every high score will, I think, involve successful military campaigns because of the way the scoring works.) This particular approach (lots of Great Leaders) depends on the map and the Civ. For a non-militaristic Civ it only begins to make sense on a map large enough to expect fighting to result in 76 (16 + 5 * 12) or more wins with elite units - that's the minimum for building Heroic Epic first to net a long term gain. (Vs. 5 * 16 = 80 to get the same number of leaders without Heroic Epic.) Not much gain until you go higher again. I think the gain is a fair bit more dramatic for militaristic Civs but I don't know the numbers. My guess would be 57 (12 + 5 * 9) before expecting to be ahead by building Heroic Epic.
Originally posted by marshalljames
Therefore in future game of the month it may be wise to set barbarians to sedentary as having then attack is a cheap way for good players to get elite units and therefore great leaders.
As far as I know, winning a fight with barbarians will never result in a Great Leader, you can only get leaders in fights with rival Civs.
 
I have played GOTM4 fully 1.17f patched. :p
Concerning the pop-rushing issue I did use some pop-rushing but not the exploit by adding workers. And the result is that only my rush city was highly unhappy after rushing 4 units and a temple.
So I agree to NO adding of workers or settlers for pop-rushing.
All other ways of pop-rushing are adressed in the patch and generate a high degree of unhappiness.
And the AI uses pop-rushing in such an extreme way when waging war that it would be a disadvantage to disallow unit rushing for us.
In my game the French and the Zulu have pop-rushed many of their cities including their capitals from size 6 or more down to size 1. The resulting unhappiness lasts extremely long and is another reason to raze most cities. :eek:
 
Originally posted by Matrix
There is always a great deal of luck involved in Civ3. Think of a battle between your first warrior attacking the only city of an enemy (with only one warrior).

The only way of dealing with the army-from-goody-hut bug is saying you must reload once you get that. We can hardly ask people to do that. :rolleyes:

Why don`t you simply ask people to use the corrected version of 1.17f where there`s no more armies from goodiehuts? It`s all a matter of honesty already so this is just one more thing to be honest about.....
 
As a this-month-specific issue:

Can I play the first-half of the GOTM with v. 1.16, and the second under 1.17 (is this even possible?)

Why? Civ III exe crash has stuffed my invasion of the aztecs. :cry:

I don't really want to replay the whole thing, as this would be cheating!

And the other option is to reload an autosave from about 5 turns back, and hope for the best. But of course, my invasion is only two-turns old (in which I took 4 cities).
 
Yes, you may. And yes, it's possible. And I don't think you'll be the only one who played one half with 1.16 and the other with 1.17...
 
Hijaking the topic starting to form on spoiler thread.


If you remove domination from GOTM then you just go to the old CIV2 method of taking your opponent down to one city and then milking the whole planet. If you remove conquest and domination then you can just terminate all the opponents and milk the scenario. We should not change the rules so quickly cause it took ten years to get where we are with the rules. Currently we are changing the rules with every patch, things have a way of sorting themselves out. If it's in the game then it's in the game, let the designers take it out if they see it as an exploit.

Cartouche Bee
 
Good point. :) I've thought the same thing about domination: perhaps they intended it this way.

On the other hand, clarification always seems to be a good thing. So if they could simply enlighten this kind of stuff...
 
Perhaps reloading on accidently domination should be allowed.

It seems there are a large number of players trying to milk the game and accidentaly triggering domination. There are also allot of players who don't or can't put in the extra time to win by another means.

If reloading under these circumstances were allowed it would keep both camps happy.

This would also be consistent with HOF rules.
 
NO.

If some people are to greedy warmongers it is their own fault.

I never triggered domination victory by accident because I prefer to play cautious.

I triggered a cultural vic by accident in the last game of the month too. No one would allow me to reload.

If you are winning a way you don´t expect it is still a winning .

That is what we all play for.

If you just win you can´t just say: I want to win by a different way to get more points.

You only win domination victories using brute force against rival civs.
If this results in a lower score it is okay, because it rewards peacefull players.
:king:
 
Originally posted by Taé Shala
NO.

If some people are to greedy warmongers it is their own fault.

I never triggered domination victory by accident because I prefer to play cautious.

I triggered a cultural vic by accident in the last game of the month too. No one would allow me to reload.

If you are winning a way you don´t expect it is still a winning .

That is what we all play for.

If you just win you can´t just say: I want to win by a different way to get more points.

You only win domination victories using brute force against rival civs.
If this results in a lower score it is okay, because it rewards peacefull players.
:king:

on principle you`re certainly right. The problem is that domination rules are mysterious and it is difficult to predict when it`s going to happen. So I guess a detailed explanation by Firaxis would be best.....


I often end up taking whole continents just to get rid of the culture flip risk when originally I just wanted to take 1 or 2 towns because of a res or lux.
 
Same is with cultural victory.

1. You must have 20.000 culture points in a single city. - Easy to understand. That is OK. :goodjob:

2. If your civilization is worth 100,000 and at least twice as much as any rival, you win. - Twice as much? What does it mean? We don´t have any exact numbers.:confused:
Once I accidently won when another civ razed one city of a rival of me. I don´t know if this was the trigger but I think so.
So what I want to say is that as long as there are no exact numbers going for a cultural vic is also like playing with fire.

And therefore there are two solutions:
1. You may reload after you accidently got a domination or cultural victory. - This is against the currently accepted rules. It is even against the spirit of the GotM from my point of view.

2. You may not reload. This is the currently accepted rule. I don´t see any reason to change it.
 
Originally posted by Taé Shala
Same is with cultural victory.

1. You must have 20.000 culture points in a single city. - Easy to understand. That is OK. :goodjob:

2. If your civilization is worth 100,000 and at least twice as much as any rival, you win. - Twice as much? What does it mean? We don´t have any exact numbers.:confused:
Once I accidently won when another civ razed one city of a rival of me. I don´t know if this was the trigger but I think so.
So what I want to say is that as long as there are no exact numbers going for a cultural vic is also like playing with fire.

And therefore there are two solutions:
1. You may reload after you accidently got a domination or cultural victory. - This is against the currently accepted rules. It is even against the spirit of the GotM from my point of view.

2. You may not reload. This is the currently accepted rule. I don´t see any reason to change it.

you do have a good point there!
 
Of course I'm with you too Taé. ;) The fact that you don't know exactly when domination victory commences is not enough reason to make reloading in such a case valid.
 
Originally posted by Beard Rinker
Perhaps reloading on accidently domination should be allowed.

It seems there are a large number of players trying to milk the game and accidentaly triggering domination. There are also allot of players who don't or can't put in the extra time to win by another means.

If reloading under these circumstances were allowed it would keep both camps happy.

This would also be consistent with HOF rules.

But the HOF and GOTM are two different styles of play. The HOF is meant to amass a huge number of points, while the GOTM is meant to be a comparative game with other players.

I didn't read all the suggestions here, but I don't think the HOF and GOTM should try and be like each other. I allow reloading for checking domination limits because it promotes people to explore the limits of the game, which can help other people play better once those limits are discussed. The GOTM is meant to be a friendly way to play the game with other people without actually having to 'play the game with other people' (Multiplayer).
 
For the record, I prefer having the domination victory condition in the GOTM. I only have time to play one game a month and just barely at that. Domination victory provides a good way to shorten a game that is clearly won.

Having said that, it is obvious many players enjoy maximizing their score and all players who do this have difficulty determining how much land they can grab without accidentaly triggering a domination victory. All other victory conditions are quite clear. With the cultural victory, your current culture is shown in the cultural advisor screen and your culture relative to other civilizations in the histogram screen. 100,000 is 100,000, there is no ambiguity there.

I have read allot of posts puzzling over what the exact formula is for determining a domination victory. Many of them by the top GOTM players. The fact is right now it is a guess as to what triggers a domination victory.

An obvious solution is for Firaxis to publish how a domination victory is determined. Anyone willing to spend the time to maximize their score should be willing to count tiles to avoid an accidental domination victory. Even better would be a future patch that displays how close you are to a domination victory.

For the time being, I would not have a problem with a player reloading if they accidentaly achieved domination victory. Perhaps a restriced clear rule like this:

- You may reload a game back one year if you accidentaly achieve a domination victory. You can only do this once per game.

Currently you are allowed to reload when you press a wrong button or put another way when you accidentaly do something unintended.

I can't be the only one who shed a tear when SirPleb accidentaly won in 1345.
 
Originally posted by Beard Rinker
Currently you are allowed to reload when you press a wrong button or put another way when you accidentaly do something unintended.
That's not put in another way, but something entirely different!

When you want a bread you go to the supermarket, but when you go to the supermarket you don't have to get a bread. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Beard Rinker
I can't be the only one who shed a tear when SirPleb accidentaly won in 1345.
It's painful, indeed. But that's part of the game. Just like Killer who got killed very early by barbarians and other bad luck.
 
It seems opinions are pretty unanimous against this suggestion. Ironically, I probably would not use this if it were allowed.

If it is not obvious from my previous posts why I suggested this, I will make clear now:
- Many players like the domination victory condition as they can shorten a game that is clearly won. (me included)
- Many players dislike the domination victory condition and would like it disabled because they cannot determine the domination victory threshold. (many of the GOTM top players)

I will say no more on the subject (unless prompted of course), but I do have a few questions. What does buying bread have to do with a domination victory? Is this some new type of Microsoft bread?
 
Originally posted by Beard Rinker
I will say no more on the subject (unless prompted of course), but I do have a few questions. What does buying bread have to do with a domination victory? Is this some new type of Microsoft bread?
When you accidentally press the wrong button you do something unintended, but when you do something unintended you don't have to have pressed the wrong button.

- Then why didn't you say so?

Because metaphors are fun! And I thought it would be clear. ;)
 
There's one critical thing that an accidental domination victory has in common with a "finger flub":

It's known to be against the player's intention in advance.

It is NOT the sort of "strategic error" or "bad roll of the dice" that one must not reload to preserve the integrity of competition.

Now, it's great to get into the habit of not making finger slips, just like it's great to get in the habit of being aware of the threshold for domination victory (2/3 of landmass, right? And initial map settings let you compute how many squares that is within one, in principle?). But what's your reasoning in allowing finger flubs to be reloaded?

Well, I really fail to see how it doesn't apply to reloading accidental domination.

What exactly does banning that accomplish? Let's say 10 people try to milk their game at the threshold of domination victory, but two of them screw up and accidentally trigger domination. Well, with a ban, life for those two people sucks, but otherwise there's no substantial change in the environment, everyone else's scores still have to compete with the other 8 near-dominators.

Seems like nobody actually benefits, instead it just forces more anal play.
 
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