what is the point of a research agreement

[buddd]

how does it benefit u to do so

 

[Buccaneer]

An RA, when hitting Modern (for example), can be worth about 3500-4000 beakers. Look at the tech costs around that time and you can see the benefit. Signing 4 in succession can give you around 16000 beakers total and you can imagine how many techs you can pop.

 

[Scarpa]

Is there a good thread somewhere that explains the 'new' (post vanilla) mechanics for this?

I know they used to be abusive, but lately I seem to get no more than a couple extra turns of research on my RAs. I've since abandoned their use, both because they seemed ineffective but also I got tired of being the science runaway all the time. I'm ready to kick up to Immortal though so I want to get back in the habit of optimizing science.

 

[reason]

An RA, when hitting Modern (for example), can be worth about 3500-4000 beakers. Look at the tech costs around that time and you can see the benefit. Signing 4 in succession can give you around 16000 beakers total and you can imagine how many techs you can pop.

I think he's questioning the fact the opponent will get the beakers as well

 

[chazzycat]

ok so yes the opponent gets some beakers. but humans are much more likely to use it effectively.

For instance a human could have a grand strategy like "my land kind of sucks so I need to invade my neighbor. I have a cool UU available in X era, and so I should sign Y number of RAs at point in time Z to get to that tech as quickly as possible, and leverage the extended period of dominance of my UU to invade my neighbor".

The AI just isn't going to put together that level of overall strategy that would get the most out of the RAs.

That's a simple example...I'm sure you can find threads on here where deity level players have very detailed plans on EXACTLY when to sign RAs to get the most effect.

 

[DaveMcW]

I think he's questioning the fact the opponent will get the beakers as well

Yes, RA is useless in a duel map.

But with 3+ players, someone is going to fall behind in tech every time an RA is signed. You want to be the one getting ahead.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Is there a good thread somewhere that explains the 'new' (post vanilla) mechanics for this?

I know they used to be abusive, but lately I seem to get no more than a couple extra turns of research on my RAs.

That's all you're going to get without Porcelain Tower and the left side of Rationalism.

That said, you're looking at four turns of research with them. That's over half of a GS. The is dirt cheap by comparison. Sign them early and often.

The one warning I'll give you is that you'll want to CTRL-click your tech plan in the tree so that you avoid having overage RA beakers randomly land on techs you don't yet want. Other than that, play normally and enjoy the . No tech blocking required.

 

[homegrown]

Are they still worth it if you are paying the era-premium of 100 extra gold?

 

[dragonxxx]

Are they still worth it if you are paying the era-premium of 100 extra gold?

Sure Late game you get tons of GPT anyway, so paying 3GPT extra doesn't hurt that much. Not sure about when you are 2-3 era's ahead tho.

 

[Scarpa]

That said, you're looking at four turns of research with them. That's over half of a GS. The is dirt cheap by comparison. Sign them early and often.

That's an excellent perspective, and something I rarely truly grasp. I get so hung up on the absolute beaker count I don't think of it in relative terms like that. Thanks for the feedback, after my latest painfully long CV attempt I'm going to start taking science seriously again.

 

[slowcar]

Sure Late game you get tons of GPT anyway, so paying 3GPT extra doesn't hurt that much. Not sure about when you are 2-3 era's ahead tho.

If you found a place where you can buy beakers with gold skip them.
Short of buying research labs or the like there is no such conversion though, so if you have money AND friends get these RAs going.

I usually give the AI the money needed if they don't have it (for gpt).

 

[dragonxxx]

Nono, dont get me wrong, I do it too , still when you are tech leader and sign a RA with the one that has 15 techs less than you, u get max 1-2 turn worth of beakers. So sometimes its better not to do it I guess (that when you have to lend em gold first and after that give em 6 GPT bonus.)

 

[Lord Yanaek]

I think he's questioning the fact the opponent will get the beakers as well

Well, if he don't sign it, than another AI will. Rather than have an oppenent benefit from it,there will be two, and he won't

 

[FrostK]

in general it is always a good idea to sign RA

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

If you can sign 4 RA's in one wave, and you have both Porcelain tower and the bottom Rationalism policy, you will be getting tech(s) for gold.

Sometimes you will need to trade away lux for, but it can be very worth-while.

There are strategies floating around that allow Science victories around turn 220 (!!), without having RA's, this would be nearly impossible.

and, as mentioned already if you dont sign up, the AI will sign them without you, leaving you with fewer beakers, and fewer AI that have gold / resources to trade.

its a good idea to sign *most* of the time.

 

[Qoma]

The thing about RA's is that yes, the opponent you sign an RA with will also get beakers. But, you must do it to offset the fact that your opponents are also making RA's with themselves. Every RA that your opponent signs with another opponent, is benefiting your opponents twice and you not at all, and they are using that to either catch up with you in tech or get further ahead in tech. In a race like that, you have to use every advantage you can to not fall behind.

 

[Acken]

RA are tech for gold, it's simply the most efficient way to do such a conversion, if you have the choice between a RA and rush buy a science building, take the RA its so much more beakers per coin.

So next time you get education, if you spend all your money on rush buying universities and end up with nothing for RA you're probably doing it wrong in my opinion and should have hard built those universities (remember universities are 660G while RA are 250G in medieval).

Obviously though if you only lose a couple of turn of RA, buying the universities, wait a couple of turns, then signing RA is the most efficient since your RA will benefit from universities beakers. But if you rush bought a university in a crappy 4-5 pop city and then cannot sign RAs for like 10-15 turns, its a terrible move.

They are the main reason the player can catch up with the AI in Deity and Immortal.