What kind of power ratio do you usually aim for before attacking?

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This depends on a lot of other factors of course, but I remember from reading this forum back in the late 2000s a rule of thumb being something like 1.7x your rival. Is that still more or less orthodox? How much do factors like difficulty level, distance, and whether or not you have a key unit gap advantage affect this, or are all of these actually so variable and significant as to make such a metric mostly unimportant?
 
Personally I don't have a specific number. Rather I weigh my options and consider things like what my goals are, how many cities (if any) I intend to take vs raze? what the defenders have and what I need to overcome them. Do I need siege? Do I expect them to have a field army or an ally with one that I have to defend against. etc. There just isn't a clear cut one size fits all answer unless you have a significant tech lead, a big resource advantage or something equally overpowering.
 
1.7 times the power ratio? That's far too high. Depending on the civ in question, 1.7 could already be the capitulation treshold - maybe you mean that?

One thing which makes a difference is whether I'm fighting a war in which I expect very favorable combat odds (good siege units or units decidedly more advanced than those of my enemy); or whether I'm just throwing a big army at tech parity at them.

Broadly speaking, the first category would be war with Trebuchets, Cannons, and Rifles/Cavalry (if the opponent still is at medieval units). I would be ok with attacking at 0.7 or 0.8 power ratio there.

The second category would be war with Catapults (because you'll lose more than you'll lose Trebs), Horse Archers, and Cuirassiers (against medieval units). I would aim closer to a 1.0 ratio there.

Also note that more than one war party can throw off those calculations - I'll gladly attack an opponent even at 0.5 power ratio (without much build-up) if I have seen his main stack walk towards destruction in enemy territory and an opportunity presents itself.
 
I did have complete conquest or capitulation in mind, yes. Should have clarified that. However, is partial war (aside from worker steals as an opener) something often aimed for? Depriving one of a strategic resource is the only other example off-hand where limited war seems like a better option. The culture mechanics make it such that conquering individual cities is seldom profitable, IME, as they will be swollen around with enemy borders and not very profitable to you unless you eliminate nearby cultural pressure.

Do many of you wage limited war outside of these circumstances very often, or is aiming for total conquest most often the best way to go?
 
Partial war is super useful when trying to stop a runaway ai. Take a couple cities and ceasefire before you take losses. I just finished a game where Mansa was running away in the modern era and I had to do this, I had to declare 3 or 4 times before finally getting a strong enough foothold in his land.
 
Partial war is super useful when trying to stop a runaway ai. Take a couple cities and ceasefire before you take losses. I just finished a game where Mansa was running away in the modern era and I had to do this, I had to declare 3 or 4 times before finally getting a strong enough foothold in his land.

MM always runs away with the game it seems. He, Zara, Gilgamesh and HC are near-always successful AIs in my games.

In those situations, do you typically raze those cities or occupy them? I guess if you remove them from the map, you're foregoing at least small sources of yield, but they also seem like they could be liabilities to defend if you're just trying to force capitulation and won't end up being able to work their whole BFC anyway.
 
MM always runs away with the game it seems. He, Zara, Gilgamesh and HC are near-always successful AIs in my games.

In those situations, do you typically raze those cities or occupy them? I guess if you remove them from the map, you're foregoing at least small sources of yield, but they also seem like they could be liabilities to defend if you're just trying to force capitulation and won't end up being able to work their whole BFC anyway.
Depends, I raze them If I can't defend them or if they'll get swallowed up in culture. I also raze if it's a legendary culture city
 
Responding directly to OP, so apologies if someone has already discussed this bit. Power ratio is quite deceptive, especially early on, as it is made up of several factors including certain buildings like barracks and walls that the AI always builds. I don't pay much attention to it myself, but rather just gauge what I see around me regarding potential targets. I will sometimes analyze in terms of how I compare to some nasties on the map or when determining peace vassal potential, but I've never used it to gauge my ability to attack. Instead, I usually use scouting to determine what I am actually up against and ramp up accordingly.
 
I did have complete conquest or capitulation in mind, yes. Should have clarified that. However, is partial war (aside from worker steals as an opener) something often aimed for? Depriving one of a strategic resource is the only other example off-hand where limited war seems like a better option. The culture mechanics make it such that conquering individual cities is seldom profitable, IME, as they will be swollen around with enemy borders and not very profitable to you unless you eliminate nearby cultural pressure.

Do many of you wage limited war outside of these circumstances very often, or is aiming for total conquest most often the best way to go?
I routinely run partial wars for various reasons. Often it's just easier to take half of an AI and consolidate before taking the other half. Especially if you know taking their entire empire will likely take long enough to tempt others to dogpile you. Or if they have allies in which case it's often the case of just biting off what ever I can and holding on to it until I can peace out. And than rinse and repeat.

Either way I newer ever look at the power ratios. Instead I look at what I can spy in terms of the units the AI has and prepare an army accordingly.
 
Ratio is not important, as it doesn't reflect what you think it does. Power is comprised of soldier count, certain techs known, and even particular buildings that have been put in place. The most common distortion of an AI's power is their navy, as they LOVE LOVE LOVE to spam ships on any map where they have coastal cities, and ship units can boost it quite a lot (such as when they get Combustion and start stacking up steel-hulls). An AI also never brings all it has to bear on you, as they always leave some count of defenders in all their cities (which can be up to 4 units or more), another artificial inflation of their capacity to make war using a simple single number.

The point is, a much more useful metric is the general military tech standing of your target (if they have longbows and you have Cuirs, well, bad for them) and direct comparisons of unit numbers in the immediate area -- even if an AI has 20 cities and some 80 longbows across their empire, they won't have all 80 of those in the one spot you choose to attack. Especially if you attack swiftly. The human player is MUCH better at mobilizing and maneuvering than the AI, who plays very reactionary.

A better evaluation of when you are ready to attack is whether you think you have enough units in your attack to make the drive, or to kill the target's assembled stack -- both of which you need to directly observe the AI for. Don't rely on the power ratio, use your eyes.

Do many of you wage limited war outside of these circumstances very often, or is aiming for total conquest most often the best way to go?
Total conquest is often a pretty lofty target. Typically in my games the goal of a first attack is to gain land, so capping the first target as long as I get several nice cites out of it is an acceptable outcome. Even better if you can cap them with a border intact between the other AIs to serve as a culture buffer to incoming enemy units in the future. If I am powerful enough to outright wipe them in the first attack (often the case, if you choose a proper target), it can just be better to take all of them to gain as much as possible and get ready for the future.

Once you have "enough" land and are ready to roll on to the next target, it's most often just cap ASAP for me if the idea is simply to win the game as fast/easy as possible.


In those situations, do you typically raze those cities or occupy them? I guess if you remove them from the map, you're foregoing at least small sources of yield, but they also seem like they could be liabilities to defend if you're just trying to force capitulation and won't end up being able to work their whole BFC anyway.
If you are simply trying to hamper an AI in late game (this quote is in respone to taking down runaways in Modern era), there isn't much incentive to keep anything, and razing is a very good way to actually hurt them...they can't take it back, it only takes one unit capturing to raze it and the rest of the army can stay together for survival/damage potential and move on, and they'll never be able to account for the loss of the fully mature city, even if they immediately resettle the location, in a short timeframe. Which by that time you could chip away at them again.

There are also more extreme cases like stopping a Cultural or Space victory, where you just YES raze the capitol or approaching legendary cities. Such a set back is devastating to the AI.
 
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I never bother with power ratios. I prefer to just surgically strike an opponent's stack by letting it walk into my turf and kill it with siege, unless my cultural borders allow me to attack and capture cities during turn 1 of a war. Warmongers are especially likely to eat my cannonballs as their huge deathstacks are no joke.
 
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