What makes the best Army?

[sabo]

It is usually better to stack fast offensive units. However adding a Mech Infantry to a Panzer Army is a very good idea! But what is the usual combination?

3 Knights, 3 Cavalry -> if you would add a defensive unit 3+1 oder 2+1, you would usually lose 1 movement and a whole possible attack this way. Is this worth the added defense? I guess not.

If I have a few 3 unit tanks (not panzer) by the time I get computers and MI and I have the pentagon I will throw in a MI into my tank army. It won't lose any movement and the tanks really need the defense.

 

[knacki]

Just stack captured city with all force you have, 20-30 or more units.

With 20 - 30 units plus an army, why don't u just crush the bug !

If you have enough units resistance will usually end next turn and city flipping almost never happens the same turn city was captured.

Well, this "almost" may be a problem !

And there is an exploit when you do pop-rushing.

I think this can't be considered as an exploit, just like the same thing when u pay to hurry production in demo...

In any way, in next few turns you will capture all nearby cities.

Well why would u lose a turn waiting in the city ? The quicker the better !
BTW I'm not sure culture flip has anything to do with the number of nearby cities you take / raze... I got to take another look at this culture flip formulae, but where can it be

 

[keiselhorn]

In my view, one of the greatest changes in C3C was the army's enhanced abilities. They were already great before C3C, but now they are unstoppable if the player knows how to set a nice one, and to use it well.

The extra movement point was the thing that was lacking to the army. Now it's worthy to put non-fast units on it, since they get a 2-square movement now. Which means armies of swordsmen, infantry and the like are really threatning now.

I like to put offensive units in the army, I rarely build defensive armies unless I'm getting plenty of leaders and the AI is still a serious threat in the war. But I priorize attack, even because the AI does not attack armies at full strength, so you can even use it to escort other single units, only being targeted by enemy artillery. But if they are fast units, it's all good.

Pillaging is also great, and if you want maximum benefit, I think putting units that are already fast makes it. With the extra point, they get even more squares to be pillaged in the turn, making it easier to isolate cities and deprive them of those so important resources or luxuries that are in the distant or in the very middle of their territory.

Have yous already tested a Berserker army? It doesn't lose the amphibious ability, and gets 2 moves in C3C.

7.2.2 in Middle Ages and even industrial, with 3 attacks (or 4) is bloody great! Especially if you attack from the place the Berserk most like to stay: the ship. It rocks, baby. It does.

 

[dgfred]

@ K- great post , you cover all the good points. The Beserkers
are unstopable in an army- no coastal town is safe from of
medieval marines. They are extra .

 

[dmanakho]

With 20 - 30 units plus an army, why don't u just crush the bug !

Because you want to make sure AI doesn't have anything to counter attack you.. Primary goal is slaughter all AI's offensive forces and if you at the beggining of the war you spread you units attacking multiple cities AI might have enough strenght to kill enough of your units to weaken you.. I don't like to think about my armies as expandable objects. Better save them for future use.

Well, this "almost" may be a problem !
:

Well, there is always an element of calculated risk you have to take you are comfortable with. It's different for different players.

Well why would u lose a turn waiting in the city ? The quicker the better !

Please see my 1st comment.

BTW I'm not sure culture flip has anything to do with the number of nearby cities you take / raze... I got to take another look at this culture flip formulae, but where can it be

You are right, I reckon what i am trying to say here... When you keep capturing one city after another those captured first become closer to your empire and have more cultural influence from your civilization than from AI... in other words those ex AI cities are not border cities anymore so they should now be influenced by AI so much especially if you manage to get rid of it's population. I am just guessing here, don't know how much sence it makes in reality but it I noticed that if i do it that way i don't have many culture flips.

 

[dmanakho]

@ K- great post , you cover all the good points. The Beserkers
are unstopable in an army- no coastal town is safe from of
medieval marines. They are extra .

We need to get for lunch together to discuss all the civilization matters

 

[DragonRunner]

Beserks have 6 attack. Do armies in Conquests get an extra attack point, too?

 

[Longasc]

If I have a few 3 unit tanks (not panzer) by the time I get computers and MI and I have the pentagon I will throw in a MI into my tank army. It won't lose any movement and the tanks really need the defense.

Oh sabo, read your posting and your quote and then read what you wrote below it...

 

[dgfred]

We need to get for lunch together to discuss all the civilization matters

D- That would be much fun- My Uncle owns an Ins. Agency in Raleigh and I
sometimes go there, I am also in the same business, and I also play golf
occaisionally around Raleigh . I will let you know if an opportunity arises. . By the way I also love your signature... SP is .

 

[HalfBadger]

Well I've never made a defensive Amry, usually I've got my border cities well defended as it is. Maybe, because I only play on Regent, AI attacks aren't that threatening. I always make Offensive Armies, Calvaries are the best typical unit for this. Of course Ancient Calvary and Gaelic Swordsman can make very dominant armies, Mounted Warrior's defense is a bit weak, but they can still be effective armies.

I find with the extra movement and the 'blitz' ability with armies in C3C, it makes more sense to make offensive armies than defensive ones.

 

[fret]

Whatever the best offensive unit you have is as soon as its built(from Swordmen/Horsemen onwards), to send it to WAR straight away!

Unless you are close(<10 turns) to getting a tech that gives a better offensive unit.

Armies are for WAR! Use 'em as they are intended and use 'em quick, each one is an advantage.

(Warmongers 2 cents )

 

[a4phantom]

How do armies choose which unit to deploy? I'm playing Sengoku and I have an army of three samurai warriors (7/7/1, +1hp) and a samurai gunner (10/8/1). I figured that the army would always deploy the gunner first because he is the better attacker and defender, and that the samurai warriors would be mostly added hp but strong enough to finish off anything that went through his 5 hp. However, whenever I attack with this army it is one of the samurai warriors who does the fighting. On the other hand, I have another army of two samurai gunners and two samurai warriors, and there a gunner does the fighting. (I won't try to spell the samurai gunner's real name, if you've played Sengoku you know who I mean and if you haven't you should.) I also have a few armies of mounted samurai, because they're usually the ones who make the great leaders and sticking them in an army is a great use for a elite* unit that cannot produce another MGL anyway. Also that three movement is nice on such a huge map.

Oh yes and in real games I make cavalry (Sipahi) armies, they bulldoze anything in their path and have four movement. Defensive armies seem like a waste although someone wrote about an army of infantry marching slowly through enemy territory, with cavalry riding out, pillaging a square, and ducking back behind the infantry every turn. That would be crippling.

 

[keiselhorn]

Beserks have 6 attack. Do armies in Conquests get an extra attack point, too?

It's true. 6 attack. My mistake.

But anyways, another enhancement on C3C is improved armies stats. They get a 1/6 extra attack, and with Military Tradition the bonus is increased to 1/4.

Which means: Berserk 6.2.1 ---> gets +1/6 ---> attack 7 each
After MT: 6 attack ---> gets +1/4 = 1.5 ---> attack 7.5 rounded down to 7.

It's an army 7.2.2, my friend. But even if it was 6, would be powerful as single cavalry units. Which means, can kick even rifleman ass.

By the way, this was nicely documented at Sir Pleb's nice Sid game.

 

[a4phantom]

But anyways, another enhancement on C3C is improved armies stats. They get a 1/6 extra attack, and with Military Tradition the bonus is increased to 1/4.

I didn't know that. So Sipahi armies are 10/3/4, blitz? Sweet.

 

[AdHHH]

I think the equation is:

Sum of attack or defence value (Cavalry = 6+6+6), multipled by the number of units (3 in a standard army, 4 post-Pentagon), divided by the initial attack value. So (18*3) / 6 = 9. So the attack value is 9, with potentially a 15 HP unit. This is one of the reasons why armies are that much stronger in C3C, and why Pentagon is worth building (multiply by 4 instead of 3, gives 12 Attack). I don't know is this is 1/4 or 1/6 mentioned but this is allows how i thought it is. I think the WA has articles on this.

 

[collin_stp]

How do armies choose which unit to deploy?

I am not sure on this one, but I thought that if you put different units in army, it just acted like one unit with the average of their attack/defense attributes, since if you look at the army in the screen, it shows single attack/defense numbers.

 

[a4phantom]

collin_stp
Chieftain

"I am not sure on this one, but I thought that if you put different units in army, it just acted like one unit with the average of their attack/defense attributes, since if you look at the army in the screen, it shows single attack/defense numbers. "

You're right, I made an army of two 10/8/1 units and a 7/7/1 unit and it was 9/8/2. This was on the Sengoku conquest.

 

[ongwin]

I've never made a defensive army, coz I remember sun tze once saying that offence is the best defence. On that game in which I had 7 armies of tanks, the computer thew everything he got at me the moment i captured one of his cities (he had railroad all over) so he advanced every unit he could spare to my position. The armies were used to attack units approaching the city. All tanks army means 3 movements, and means 3 attacks. The first army was used to attack the city, and so i destroyed 6X3=18 of his units.

Even though the next turn he attacked my tanks, tanks do have a reasonably good defense strength, so they held up quite well...

Anyway, I do see the idea of a defensive army, but an army full of MA is better for the following reasons.

1. 4 movement points is very dangerous, especially with the army's blitz.
2. High attack strength, it can punch through any line of defence
3. MA's have reasonably good defense strength, even though its not the highest.


Secondly, I would like to raise a question about mixing units. In the earlier ages, (before tanks) it would be wise to either have a defence unit standing on the square of the army to protect it or mix it into the army. I would like your point of view. Usually defence units are slower. So if i have an army of 2 cavalry and one rifleman, they would only move 2 steps. That is the first disadvantage. On the other hand, if they are attacked the rifle man would take up defence and have all the health points.

I have heard of people making something known as an artillery army. So why not have one offense unit, one defence unit and one artillery unit. Then your army would be multi-purpose, bombard and attack and can defend itself. When you get the pentagon you could add a high-health unit, special units like war elephant or ancient cavalry (anything with the one extra HP bonus) just to give it more health, since the army already can attack.... What do you guys think?

Thanks!

 

[painkiller]

The best army is the offensive one. Defensive armys are a waste of time.

 

[stormbind]

Terrain is more important. A little army of conscripts can cause havok given the right terrain.