Leathaface
Emperor
It looks like they are going to make the top 5 in the Unique unit elimination thread. However unlike the other remaining units they don't see particularly special.
What makes the Hetairoi so good?
- Thread starter Leathaface
- Start date
liv
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2010
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- 1,394
You do not need horses. When adjacent to a great general you get five extra strength (41 in total. I think.) That is strong for an early unit.
and when you kill with them you get great general points.
And what is pretty sweet. They upgrade to knights!!!!!
The drawback in maintenance cost so in my book Eagle warriors and warcarts are better (especially warcarts)
and when you kill with them you get great general points.
And what is pretty sweet. They upgrade to knights!!!!!
The drawback in maintenance cost so in my book Eagle warriors and warcarts are better (especially warcarts)
Horsemen rush is the meta right now and so being able to guarantee access without needing horses is already great. Great Generals, especially early Great Generals, are incredibly powerful. Macedonia already has strong synergy with this as they have an incentive to build an encampment and their UB as early as possible.
Sometimes it can be hard to really separate the unit itself from the units synergy with it's civ. For instance Pitai Archer's are much more powerful in Nubia's hands than if other civs had access to them. Other notable examples include Eagle Warriors, Redcoats, Longships and Kheshigs.
Sometimes it can be hard to really separate the unit itself from the units synergy with it's civ. For instance Pitai Archer's are much more powerful in Nubia's hands than if other civs had access to them. Other notable examples include Eagle Warriors, Redcoats, Longships and Kheshigs.
Disgustipated
Deity
Haven't participated in the elimination threads as I don't know how they work. For Macedon's unit, I would say that because this is a civ completely dependent on military conquest, this unit is more important to them than say a uu would be to a civ with peaceful special abilities. This unit makes Macedon work. They have to use this unit, where as many civs uu's I never use (like the Redcoat).
I do have an additional question. Does anyone use Macedon's other UU? And do you get era score for building both?
I do have an additional question. Does anyone use Macedon's other UU? And do you get era score for building both?
Mr. Shadows
Nomad of the time streams
They come with a free promotion. That means they start with a +50 heal. They're stronger than horsemen, and they get the GG bonus. If you have Alexander's special barracks they also generate a nice chunk of science every time you make one. If anything I think the elimination thread under-values them.
rschissler
King
I've been following the UU elimination thread. What bugs me is that all the top UU's are early units. Why can't there be any good mid-era units?
It's not that later units suck.. it's that at higher difficulty levels 90% of the game is decided in the first 50-75 turns. So when placing an intrinsic value on UUs early game is factored in heavily.
BarbarianHunter
SPAMBO
The Hetairoi Is my favorite unit as there are so many positives and no meaningful negatives. You will receive 25 science per unit when built in your Basilikoi Paides, starts w/ 1 promotion, moves 4, does not require strategic resources, 46 operational melee strength when accompanied with a great general, +5 great general points for every unit killed (including barbarian scouts), available early in the tech tree with horsemanship. Heavy cav unit that upgrades to knights/tanks.
The opening promotion allows you to slam a couple of them into a city then promote and fully heal just and the science you earn for for producing them in your Basilikoi Paides can be invested into stirrups for an early knight, but who needs ‘em. And don’t worry, if you don’t already have a great general from building your Basilikoi Paides, you soon will. As each unit killed (including barbarian scouts) gets you +5 great general points.
I think these saves from my most recent Macedonian game augment and highlight what I’ve said above; demonstrating the devastating effect these units can have over a very short period of time.
Here’s a summary of the game:
The Mapuche were completely out of control, orchestrating a successful war against Indonesia as well as developing their districts effectively. They had a 40 science per turn compared to my 8. They had 25 culture to my 9, and 8 cities to my 3. The Mapuche cities also had high adjacency bonus, developed districts. I had one Basilikoi Paides, Magnus, a gold horde I had been saving, allot of real estate to chop, and the ability to create Hetairoi.
An Emergency against the Mapuche came up, I figured, what do I have to lose?
31 turns later, the Mapuche war officially morphed into a mop up operation.
After another 16 turns, due to the high movement rating of the Hetairoi (4 normal and 5 with a great general), I had traversed back across the Mapuche land I just conquered to address the next most serious threat, Montezuma.
Over the next 47 turns I knocked off Montezuma 1st, then the Germans, then the Khmer, and finally what Indonesia had left after the abysmal ancient era shellacking at the hands of the Mapuche. The victory screen flashed for domination victory 8 turns before the close of the Classical Era. I don't think this would have been possible on this map with any other unit, as by the time I would have been able to make, say a Mamluk, the Mapuche would have further snowballed out of reach. Infantry units just don't have the movement, and naval units are limited in scope, even the fast moving Nubian archers could not have swung it (not even close as their movement is not augmented by Classical Era great generals).
I began the Classical era with a 19 era score, needed more than 32 to avoid a Dark Age, and between 33 and 44 for a normal age. Due solely to the early advent of the heavy hitting Hetairoi (with the horsemanship as opposed to stirrups), I was not only able to avoid being overrun, but was able to achieve a domination victory 8 turns before the close of the Classical Era, I had 139 era score.
I’m not all that sure Gilgamesh's fabled warcart can compete, as he has to cool down (or risk getting his carts killed in droves) until he can research stirrups (that’s assuming he can find any iron). A knight upgrade is nice for the Hetairoi, but by no means required to carry on with the conquests (just stay within range of a great general).
You did ask.
The opening promotion allows you to slam a couple of them into a city then promote and fully heal just and the science you earn for for producing them in your Basilikoi Paides can be invested into stirrups for an early knight, but who needs ‘em. And don’t worry, if you don’t already have a great general from building your Basilikoi Paides, you soon will. As each unit killed (including barbarian scouts) gets you +5 great general points.
I think these saves from my most recent Macedonian game augment and highlight what I’ve said above; demonstrating the devastating effect these units can have over a very short period of time.
Here’s a summary of the game:
The Mapuche were completely out of control, orchestrating a successful war against Indonesia as well as developing their districts effectively. They had a 40 science per turn compared to my 8. They had 25 culture to my 9, and 8 cities to my 3. The Mapuche cities also had high adjacency bonus, developed districts. I had one Basilikoi Paides, Magnus, a gold horde I had been saving, allot of real estate to chop, and the ability to create Hetairoi.
An Emergency against the Mapuche came up, I figured, what do I have to lose?
31 turns later, the Mapuche war officially morphed into a mop up operation.
After another 16 turns, due to the high movement rating of the Hetairoi (4 normal and 5 with a great general), I had traversed back across the Mapuche land I just conquered to address the next most serious threat, Montezuma.
Over the next 47 turns I knocked off Montezuma 1st, then the Germans, then the Khmer, and finally what Indonesia had left after the abysmal ancient era shellacking at the hands of the Mapuche. The victory screen flashed for domination victory 8 turns before the close of the Classical Era. I don't think this would have been possible on this map with any other unit, as by the time I would have been able to make, say a Mamluk, the Mapuche would have further snowballed out of reach. Infantry units just don't have the movement, and naval units are limited in scope, even the fast moving Nubian archers could not have swung it (not even close as their movement is not augmented by Classical Era great generals).
I began the Classical era with a 19 era score, needed more than 32 to avoid a Dark Age, and between 33 and 44 for a normal age. Due solely to the early advent of the heavy hitting Hetairoi (with the horsemanship as opposed to stirrups), I was not only able to avoid being overrun, but was able to achieve a domination victory 8 turns before the close of the Classical Era, I had 139 era score.
I’m not all that sure Gilgamesh's fabled warcart can compete, as he has to cool down (or risk getting his carts killed in droves) until he can research stirrups (that’s assuming he can find any iron). A knight upgrade is nice for the Hetairoi, but by no means required to carry on with the conquests (just stay within range of a great general).
You did ask.
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You must have missed the part where they upgrade to knights and not cavalry...
If they did not, IMO they would not be top 10...
The GG bonus stacks normally with the innate +5 from GG, so they are +10 with GG
You must also remember that flanking adds +2 for each unit adjacent to your target, and units that ignore ZoC will have a much easier time flanking. So when talking about cavalry units you can easily give them +2 to +8 practical combat strength advantage over swords and spears.
If they did not, IMO they would not be top 10...
The GG bonus stacks normally with the innate +5 from GG, so they are +10 with GG
You must also remember that flanking adds +2 for each unit adjacent to your target, and units that ignore ZoC will have a much easier time flanking. So when talking about cavalry units you can easily give them +2 to +8 practical combat strength advantage over swords and spears.
Eliminator_Sr
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2016
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- 566
I'm currently playing Macedon and have almost 20 cities by turn 95 and I've wiped most of my starting continent. Rome just got Knights and Hets are still holding their own against them and their first city has fallen. Hetairoi are unstoppable once you get a Great General and I'm about to get my 4th one. You really have to try it for yourself - just beeline straight for horseback riding - do not detour and you will be amazed at how effective they are.
shaglio
The Prince of Dorkness
liv
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2010
- Messages
- 1,394
In this case if I remember correctly it means the gg tile if you have it on top of a horse and all the horses next to it. So you can attack a city with an enormous force if you have the right GG (and you REALLY want the right GG when you play as Macedon)
It also works for the very unit the GG is standing on top on.
Basically the +5 unique bonus works for a 1-tile radius and works with any era GG.
The separate GG generic bonus is +1 move and +5 in 2-tile radius; this works for hetairoi only for the first era GGs.
So basically +10 for hetairoi within 1 tile (46 strength) and +5 for hetairoi in the 2nd ring (41 strength). +1 move for all.
So a hetairoi within 1 tile of GG is stronger than a normal knight.
Basically the +5 unique bonus works for a 1-tile radius and works with any era GG.
The separate GG generic bonus is +1 move and +5 in 2-tile radius; this works for hetairoi only for the first era GGs.
So basically +10 for hetairoi within 1 tile (46 strength) and +5 for hetairoi in the 2nd ring (41 strength). +1 move for all.
So a hetairoi within 1 tile of GG is stronger than a normal knight.
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