Achinz
Hermit of Huangshan
My source for China's invention of gunpowder comes from a publication from the prestigious Chinese Academy of Sciences.
What nation shaped the world the most?
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Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
If a western bias is distorting facts, then, as one without a western bias, you really ought to contribute rather than bailing out.
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Roughly, off the top of my head:
1) Western Roman Christendom (Spain, Portugal, France, England, Germany, Scandinavia, USA, etc)
2) Levant (including Anatolia)
3) Graeco-Roman Civilization
4) China
5) Iran
6) India
7) Mesopotamia
8) Egypt
9) Islam
10) Greater Turkey
1) Western Roman Christendom (Spain, Portugal, France, England, Germany, Scandinavia, USA, etc)
2) Levant (including Anatolia)
3) Graeco-Roman Civilization
4) China
5) Iran
6) India
7) Mesopotamia
8) Egypt
9) Islam
10) Greater Turkey
Ad Hominem
Warlord
now that I think of it, there is one single nation that has shaped the world in more than one ways (and all of them are quite unpleasant) and the consequences of it's actions are quite visible even today, and this nation (more an amalgam of ethnic groups and tribes, actually) is not in the poll.
Yes, I am talking about the Mongols. They sealed the fate of Asia once and for good - had they not been, maybe Asia and not Europe would be ahead.
think of it...
Yes, I am talking about the Mongols. They sealed the fate of Asia once and for good - had they not been, maybe Asia and not Europe would be ahead.
think of it...
Mongoloid Cow
Great Khan
Originally posted by calgacus
If a western bias is distorting facts, then, as one without a western bias, you really ought to contribute rather than bailing out.
Yeah, but then you get these people coming along after a good post and just saying the stuff which is often said at the beginning of the thread which is western bias and nothing short. It's not worth the effort one bit.
But I will quote this though
(coz I agree):Originally posted by Ribannah
If you take the question literally, there can be only one answer: the Dutch. They changed land into water, water into land, swamp into clay or sand and back again, beach into dune, deciduous woods into pinewoods and back, altered the course and shape of a great many rivers, etc.
yaroslav
Emperor
But its influence is not the biggest, the most important, etc until the XIX century, IMHO.
I didn't say that, I did say that until XIX it doesn't reached their main influence
But probably there is a corelation between empire and influence, am I wrong?
Ummm? What? Can you explain that more, please?
So the industrialization can't be used as an argument? Because I believe that you've used it as an argument.
where?
Europe was a relatively backward piece of land by the time America was discovered, and it was slowly recovering from a Islamic dominace. Without america, Europe didn't have had enough resources and land to create what was to come. In fact, some historians think that without America, Europe wouldn't have developed into the main power.
I stronly disagree with your post also, but at least you made an argument for your case
Well if sarcasm is the best argument you can come up with against them and in favour of your father land, youve just proved my point.Thanks
The sacarms of thorg is given by the continous attidue of some anglo-saxon peopel of not taking into account anything that is not british/american/canadian, etc. I'm not saying that it's your attitude, but we have found it so many times in Internet that such a reaction is a self-deffense mechanism that people like Thorg use.
yaroslav
Emperor
I wonder, for instance, if Arabia didn't shape the world more than any European Country...
After all, the Islam spreaded by Mahoma did change the world and create a community from Morroco to Indonesia that changed the history of the world in a drastic way.
After all, the Islam spreaded by Mahoma did change the world and create a community from Morroco to Indonesia that changed the history of the world in a drastic way.
yaroslav
Emperor
BTW, fret, I'll be out for a month or so, so I apologize in advance because if you reply to my post I'll delay a lot before replying it again
Thorgalaeg
Deity
When did i argue in favour of my father land?Originally posted by fret
Well if sarcasm is the best argument you can come up with against them and in favour of your father land, youve just proved my point.
It is only that since there is no contest to my point, either, why should I spare my time arguing with you? Hayek
Old Whig
The UK. Shaped and influenced a whole lot of countries and spread the English language all over the world. Among other things.
Finmaster
The White Ghost
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I would say Rome if we only talked about Europe, but when the entire world is taken into account, I'll have to say Greece. They didn't expand their culture only to Europe, but during the hellenistic era (I'm not sure what it is in English) they brought their culture to Asia and Africa as well. Later it made Arabs what they were, and Indians what they were - at least partly - while bringing asian influence to European culture.
UK and Rome would come second.
UK and Rome would come second.
andrewgprv
Second Class Citizen
Personally I think the only things you can say are:
Rome Shaped the Western World
China the Eastern
Islam/The Caliphs the Muslim World
The Bantu the African World
The earliest civilisations shaped the world as a whole, Mesopotamia, Egypt, India, China
Rome Shaped the Western World
China the Eastern
Islam/The Caliphs the Muslim World
The Bantu the African World
The earliest civilisations shaped the world as a whole, Mesopotamia, Egypt, India, China
Qitai
.
China, Rome, Greece, UK, Germany
EdwardTking
Deity
I am undecided between Rome and Britain, but it is definitely the West.
I don't see the Romans as being logical predecessors to Britain,
and therefore don't believe that Britain is a reflection of Rome.
The english language came from a merger of the Anglo-Saxons and Jutes who invaded Britain after the Romans had left, with some other greater Germanic influences from the Vikings directly and then indirectly via the Normans.
The other primary influence on England is Christianity, in particular the belief in a rational God that advocated moral rules and enabled the development of science discovering how the world worked. The Romans never invented this. It spread from Israel despite the Romans who persecuted it.
Sure moral rules were developed independently by Budhaa and Confucious, but their developents did not influence Britain.
Although use was made of Latin as the international language, democracy was re-developed in England through magna carta.
Israeli Monotheism + Germanic tribes = Britain
And it is the British language that dominates the world today.
Delegates at the UN mainly wear western clothes, am I right?
Even in the East, the business classes use western accounting (Venetian) and make far more use of western techniques than the business classes in the West make use of Eastern techniques.
I don't see the Romans as being logical predecessors to Britain,
and therefore don't believe that Britain is a reflection of Rome.
The english language came from a merger of the Anglo-Saxons and Jutes who invaded Britain after the Romans had left, with some other greater Germanic influences from the Vikings directly and then indirectly via the Normans.
The other primary influence on England is Christianity, in particular the belief in a rational God that advocated moral rules and enabled the development of science discovering how the world worked. The Romans never invented this. It spread from Israel despite the Romans who persecuted it.
Sure moral rules were developed independently by Budhaa and Confucious, but their developents did not influence Britain.
Although use was made of Latin as the international language, democracy was re-developed in England through magna carta.
Israeli Monotheism + Germanic tribes = Britain
And it is the British language that dominates the world today.
Delegates at the UN mainly wear western clothes, am I right?
Even in the East, the business classes use western accounting (Venetian) and make far more use of western techniques than the business classes in the West make use of Eastern techniques.
SeleucusNicator
Diadoch
Exactly. Many insitutions that are now world-wide developed in one and only one place: the West.
Democracy, Communism, constitutional government, secular education, secular government, technology, industry, and a whole slew of others are Western exports. To make a rash statement, only the West matters. China, India, Asia, etc. all did some impressive things, but their history has been shaped by the West far more than vice-versa.
Following from the previous statement that only the West matters in the world, I'd have to say Rome. Western culture is in many ways a mimicry of Roman culture. There are foreign elements, yes, but we have set the ancient Romans up, rather undeservingly in some cases but very much so in others, as some kind of ideal.
Democracy, Communism, constitutional government, secular education, secular government, technology, industry, and a whole slew of others are Western exports. To make a rash statement, only the West matters. China, India, Asia, etc. all did some impressive things, but their history has been shaped by the West far more than vice-versa.
Following from the previous statement that only the West matters in the world, I'd have to say Rome. Western culture is in many ways a mimicry of Roman culture. There are foreign elements, yes, but we have set the ancient Romans up, rather undeservingly in some cases but very much so in others, as some kind of ideal.
SeleucusNicator
Diadoch
I hadn't thought of that. Good point.
With just a few exceptions (Armenians, Tocharians, etc.), Indo-Europeans have conquered and prospered wherever they migrated, unless other Indo-Europeans got in their way.
the problem is, aside from a common (origional) language, and soem simler ideask in war, and male dominated religion(s_ there dosetn seem to be much more of a common bond- but then, i to will say that these are perhaps the most influential of all- from reland to the Indus, and (at least) the levant to Scandanavia these guys expnaded over a huge area, and set themselves up as a single orginional culture from which the all the modern west and then some is descended in culture at least.
SeleucusNicator
Diadoch
Xen: The Indo-Europeans never set up a single original culture covering that area. They existed as a singular cultural group living around the Caspian sea, and then 11 sub-groups split off at different times and went elsewhere. These sub-groups already had their own distinct dialects and distinct spins on the culture at the time of their leavings.
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