What Tech Next?

[Krill]

Now writing has been completed, we are at a crossroads. We have several options:

• Alphabet
• Aesthetics
• Code of Laws
• Other (HBR, Maths, Machinery, Compass, Archery)

Alphabet

The turnpike, we would be paying for this route if we made a mistake and have to build research to catch up with teching, this option is possibly the riskiest of all the strong economic options, as it relies on two things to make it powerful: that we find Saturn and can trade for CoL and that we are happy to give up any chance of the GL right now, along with delaying any other wonders from Aesthetics (ie SoZ). Obviously if we can weedle this out of Cav, then we won't have to research it...

one advantage of tech alphabet is that we get a tech boost from Cav and Kaz know it, maybe on 5 bpt, but enough to shave 1 turn off it compared to Aesthetics, even though both "cost" the same amount of beakers.

Finish eot t88-90 depending on if MS get it.


Aesthetics

The country lane, this tech takes us away from the beaten track, but offers some interesting encouters in a country pub, and removes the ability to tech trade with Saturn unles we research alpha second (which in itself leaves us open to a backstab by Saturn). it opens up the possibility of SoZ t96 to ease our fear of war a little.

Should be finished by eot t90 with a little gold to spare, in time for an SoZ to be completed at the earliest possible date without screwing with the gp.


Code of Laws

The Safe option, the Interstate, but it misses all of those lovely views that you can only see through the back roads of a city, means we would not be relying on meeting Saturn and we would definately have it in time for Pyramids, the downside is that we would have nothing to trade with Saturn if we met them. Should be done by t92-94.


Other

Machinery: Useless, no tech bonus, will never trade it for anything, and Crossbows are useless, expensive and it delays economic techs

Maths: No tech bonus (maybe when Cav trade it to other civs), little chopping advanatage now, only useful as stepping stone to CS and Calendar, and Currency (but so is Alpha).

HBR: We can't rush

Archery: Not needed, have axes and surfiet of production.

Compass: HAHAHAHA

Monarchy: see above

Masonry: we need it, but just not yet...let it spread so we get tech bonus, and it also hides our intentions.

Polytheism: useless unless going to Lit, monotheism will fall before we even finish masonry.


Conclusion

Actually, you know what, all these have possible downsides and upsides. They all suck, even Aesthetics IMO. But we have no other choice, the only advantage we have is that for the next 6 turns we can save gold before having to commit to researching one of them, and hope we find Saturn asap. before the end of every turn, Memhus can put 1 beaker into Masonry and then swap back to archery so we don't let Kaz find out what tech we are researching if they get enough ep to see our research.

 

[IamJohn]

I voted code of laws, but that's just me and my over-murphyized life.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

machinery isn't completely useless, as it gives us windmills and watermills - windmills, in particular, will be useful for our western cities on hills.

Math does have the advantage of being a stepping stone to construction.

I think we need alpha, at some point, so that would be my tentative choice.

 

[Krill]

If we have to head to Construction right now, while others are getting economic techs, we have lost this game already.

Windmills are only useful to CK, and possibly IS; even then though, the increase in commerce generated is no where near enough to justify the cost (1100 beakers) which is more than Alphabet, Aesthetics and Masonry. It's useless until we are in a position to grow CK, which we won't be because we need that city churing out settlers pretty much constantly after we have CoL and pyramids.

 

[Love]

With alphapet we could get spies up.

 

[Memphus]

My vote is we get gold until we can turn it on 100% for one of these techs then i will vote.

 

[dutchfire]

Slight preference for Aesthetics, but I'd like to go 100% gold like Memphus for as long as possible.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

just saying that math is a stepping stone.

SoZ is certainly useful and might be a wonder i'm in favor of building - I think we have to be careful about building too many wonders, though.

 

[Memphus]

I think we have to be careful about building too many wonders, though.

That just made my afternoon

 

[Krill]

Math is a stepping stone, it is a valuble one, and it is a tech that we will need in the near future. The problem arises that right now we are not ready to reach the otherside of the river, so the stepping stone is not of any value to us. at present. We can make use of all of the techs that lead from it, Calendar for banans, sugar, and a centred world map, but that last point should be moot by the time we research it. Construction, if we need it, then we have lost already, better to fail trying to win than fail because we persued a losing strategy. Currency...OK, yeah, that would be useful, being able to build wealth would be damned nice, but the only thing we have close to that is failing to finish wonder builds that we are close to completing. Civil Service you will get no argument out of me about at all, apart from that we need CoL first, and we need caste to tech properly (ie 120bpt+ instead of 40bpt like now), so tech ordering would need sorting out here.

As for wonders, I agree with you, we do not want to build too many, but on the other hand, next turn we hit 64 MFG. The second best is 30? MFG. Our GNP sucks though, because of our land layout. Our best way of making commerce is from the sea; if you look at hthe world map we have upwards of 7 cities that look to be coastal, and we could easily hit 10 cities on the coast. That is one of the massive benefits of the collosus; also a benefit of the GLH, minimum of 2 gpt from all cities, 4gpt from each foreign trade route. It costs 200 hammers, hammers which we can not sink into anything else apart from wonders, because if we expand, our tech will go through the floor (you were the person who originally pointed this out, AT, and you are turning out to be more correct as more teams turn against us). Yes, we could build 3 extra workers, but those workers would not provide as large an economic advantage as the GLH.

I'm considering what the effect would be if we went for Aesthetics but not Lit; the earliest we can get the GL if we were to push for it is t115 (OK, with some trickery, maybe a bit sooner). I would definately expect Kaz to beat us to it if they wanted it, even if the trio did not research Aesthetics next, simply because they can tech so much faster than us, as three civs with at least 2 of them, probably all 3 teching faster. It would be an interesting way to protect the Collosus build though; the GL is much more important than the Collosus, and given a choice between trying to steal the Collosus off us, and securing the GL, I definately know which way a PHI civ is going to go.

Another way to look at it is considering The Parthenon. We have 3 city sites that we may be teching at out of specialists: AC (Awesome city with 4 food res), OO, and IS. Between them then make 51 GPP/turn; Parthenon added to this is more powerful than the GL, which only provides 8 GPP, but requires 400 hammers compared to 350 that hte GL costs, yet does not require that we research Lit, which saves us 300 hard earned beakers that puts us that much closer to Currency, CS, etc, and we are bloated with hammers. Also, IS would have to make the GL to make use of it as a real wonder city (Pyramids, GLH, GL, maybe Collosus (don't have to decide until the forge is complete in FC anyway) along with up to 5 specialists, whereas Parth can be built in any production city (ideally either CK or FC, probably CK as we need FC working coast and growing, at size 13 it only has ocean tiles left, and that is attainable with AC settled). This would make me lean towards Aesthetics next, or second after Alpha. I don't quite see the need of researching CoL except if we can not find Saturn before t95 (whatever happens, we will be saving gold before each tech research to make sure we get as many boni as possible; we can not afford not to).

 

[azzaman333]

I don't think it's likely we'll be getting Alpha from Cavs, so that's my choice.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

That just made my afternoon

lol.

You play with the traits you have. When you are industrious, you build some wonders. When you have marble, you build marble wonders

Us - we don't have marble, stone and aren't industrious, so let's not build all that many wonders

 

[Memphus]

we are industrious though. by nature of our city locations

 

[Krill]

Next turn our MFG = 64
Nearest rival this turn = 27

More units = slower tech by virtue of being over the unit limit.
More cities = slower tech by virtue of already having 5 cities.
Moer city improvements = wasted due to location of excess production.

Wonders are the only other stuff to build...having twice the production of the next team is slightly better than a mere +50% production bonus though

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I'm not arguing against building wonders - just want to be sure that we build the RIGHT wonders, is all.

Parthenon is maybe smart, maybe not. it is a lot smarter if we get Pyramids and start running a bunch of specialists!!
The lighthouse can be very smart (we definitely need OB for it, though)
One thing about Lit is Heroic Epic, which we will need at some point. Might be nice to find some marble somewhere.

 

[Memphus]

I am confident that we will find no marble or stone on this map

 

[Krill]

Parthenon is maybe smart, maybe not. It is a lot smarter if we get Pyramids and start running a bunch of specialists!!

That's the plan...and if that falls through we are very screwed...

The lighthouse can be very smart (we definitely need OB for it, though)

Not necesarily; OBs double the value, but there is still value to it from a denial perspective. Considering our position, and that we can settle up to 10 cities on the coast, even without OBs it should be providing between 4 commerce/turn and 20 commerce/turn over it's lifespan of at least 50 turns. If the average GPT is 12 cpt over 50 turns that is still 600 commerce that gets routed through multipliers like libs and then the research bonus. So considering that as the LOWER limit, that's 3 commerce for every hammer invested which is better than we are going to get anywhere else. Except in a Wall Street Holy city

One thing about Lit is Heroic Epic, which we will need at some point. Might be nice to find some marble somewhere.

Yeah, we are going to need Lit, but we need to question the priorities; is having Lit without going for the GL a good investment compared to having, say, Sugar and Banas hooked earlier? What with the GL? What about compared to having CS 10 turns earlier and Bureaucracy with the palace in JD working 10 cottages/hamlets/villages/towns? We want it, but should we get it early while it is more expensive and try for the GL, or give up the GL and wait for it to become cheaper and focus on other economic techs? I'm thinking the latter in our position is more important, considering that Kaz are researching so fast, we need to find a way to catch up quickly.

 

[regoarrarr]

I think I would lean towards stockpiling gold, then teching Alpha if we can't get it from someone, and Aesthetics if we can.

I like the Parthenon and the GLight, but I'm just a silly builder anyways...

 

[Krill]

Looking at the lay of the land, I think GLH we should definately build, especially as it's only 200 hammers. We can probeably get it in 7 or 8 turns depending on overflow.


There is another option that I just thought of, although it is a little risky (diplomatically)...we can save gold until around t95 if we decide straight up against going for Aesthetics, or until we meet Saturn. If Saturn have Alphabet, we can offer MC+a tech that we deficit research asap for Alpha and CoL, if they don't we can offer to deficit research Alpha (6-7 turns) and trade that and MC for CoL and another tech. Obviously this is meant if Cav decide against trading us Alphabet.

It's risky because we don't know what Saturn are going to do diplomatically, but it is safer because if they downright refuse to trade CoL we have no need for alpha and can then just deficit research CoL in time for revolting to rep and caste.

 

[Memphus]

i think that plan is genius.
Alpha loses all weight for us if no one will trade.