What would make CIV V better?

[devilhunterred]

I have tons of ideas that would make CIV V a even better game than CIV IV, here are my suggestions:

Weather/Natural Disaster System:

Often it would seem bizzare to me, looking at this detailed 3D and visually impressive world that is CIV IV filled with pounding ocean, swaying trees, wandering cows, freezing iceland, etc, but missing one extremely significant element that always play a vital part of their everyday life for the people that lived in it throughout history: Weather and climate.

Imagine having a the world we have in CIV IV now but with snowstorms up in the poles blowing up unpenetratable curtains of white, rainfall in the tropical rainforrests hammering down the soil, strong winds in the woods lifting up volleys of emeral leaves, it would be a truly breathtaking sight to see.

CIV is a game all about experiencing the past couple of thousand of years of human civilization history, and remaking it. But aren't natural disasters such as volcano erruption, tsunami, tournado, earthquack not a vital part of our cilivization history too? Had humans not shown our determination to survive in these time of mortal danger? Had kings and rulers not shown guidence and leadership to their people in these time of crisis? There are numerous cases to which an ancient, and highly advanced cilvilzation, erased from existence, not by fires of war torn city or the hot blood on the blemished spear, but simply by the mighty force of mother nature.

Emergence of weather and natural disaster create a new challenge players would have to face accordingly to the location of their empire. Snowstorm in the north would freeze railway tracks, avalache blocks off road, etc, slowing down the transporation. Extreme harsh weather can even lead to death of your people (yes, in CIV V your population do age, and die, i will talk about that later).

On the other hand, tropical regions with heavy rainfalls can overflow the rivers and cause floods, destroying settlements and crops, halting food production. Empire located in desert region can have droughts, killing livestock. On the vast plains twisters and tournadoes roam and occur often, leaving destruction of wind in their wake.

Due to this, the importantce or workers is greatly increased. They are no longer disposable assets that are deleteable in the later age of game. Instead, you would want them position near a large forrest, so they can extinguish it when there is a large forrest fire, or place hem near railways up north, so that they can clear the railway when it is blocked off by avalanche.

Don't think that weather can only bring about destruction, it can certainly have positive effects. Peddy rice fields can generate twice as more food in a turn when it recevies raining. Rainning can also regenerate a forrest. Huge wind in the right time at the right place can help you put out a fire. When it is sunny people are more likely to go out, injecting money into the economy thus incresaing your commerce. Large ocean tides may sway in crabs or fish to your coast that were previously not there. etc, think of the possibilities.

Depending on where your empire is located, it creates varied and unique climatic problems respectively. Severe natural catastrophes such as earthquakes, volcano erruption (depending if you have moutains in your empire) or hurricanes occur very rarely once a century or so, and it can occur to any cilvilization, at anytime, anywhere.

This new feature not only impresses in the visual standpoint (imagine watching a lava melting up everything as the volcano errupts, or a horrucane lifting up ships high in the air ad crash them down to bits in the ocean), but it would also enhance the significant role of diplomacy and trading. It would be wise to strike your enemies when they are crippled by the aftermaths of an earthquack, or paying tribute to neighbours preventing them to invade when your navy is just struck by a hurricane and your land forces are consist of mere infantries.

Resources in CIV V would not be scattered randomly throughout the world like they are now in CIV IV: Imporant resources like oil, iron, copper, cows, can be found almost everywhere despite the climate of the region. It should emulate how resources are geographically placed in the real world we are living in now.

An empire founded in the wild north would logically have abundance of iron, gold or copper, but the harsh element of the wind and snow made agriculture almost impossible, not to mention the lack of any wild life games such as cows, sheeps and pigs. To survive, it would have to develop strong relationship with an empire in the southern tropical region, plentiful of rice, wheat, banana, exactly what the snow and ice lacks. In return, the southern empire is rewarded in the trade with oil and iron, resources that tropical forrests do not possess at all.

This is what real inter-national relationship should be. Resource on this planet is scarse. One empire can not be self-sufficient enough all by itself, it must always rely on another to simply survive. This hold true to all countries existing in the real world today. America, China, India, etc.

 

[AfterShafter]

Well, a few problems...

First, a lot of the effects you're saying are already in are merely graphical and don't affect gameplay.

Second, and more important, the timeline. When single early turns last decades, and late turns last a year, how do you put in a weather system? The time frame of the game is too small to account ice ages, and early game turns are *way* too long to account for even the largest stormfronts, and even late game turns, coming in at a year each (if I'm not mistaken) are pushing it for counting anything but the odd major hurricane.

 

[devilhunterred]

Aging of the Population, Birth Rate, Death Rate

It is another bizzare thing to me, as to how population in a city can keep on growing, but they never seem to "die" at all, in the exceptions of war, sacrificing or starvation (but in the starvation theory you can just say that the citizen left the city simply because there is not enough food in produced in it).

It will be a much more realistic and rational explaination if population do age every turn (at the early stage of the game every person is born in a turn, and die in the second consecutive turn, considering the fact that a turn in the early stage of the game takes about 40 years in normal speed).

And eventually as people age, they die. However just as real nations, babies are born everyday in your country, and as opposed to the death rate, these newborns balance the equation and hopefully giving your empire a result of positive birth rate, meaning the overal population of your empire is growing.

You can prevent a high death rate, by of course, not having starvation in your cities, but other appraoches include increasing the life expectantcy of your country.

This is done, by installing hospitals, supermarket, study technologies such as hygene, genetics, etc. A large populated empire without hospitals and proper medical attention is expected to have high death rate, but the constant of newborn babies from the masses of people can balance the equation out. Or your empire can be small, consisting a fewew number of population than a large empire, but the advanced technology that you have provides your people with good medical facilities. So even if your annual production of babies isn't a lot, you can still balance out the equation by having high life expectancy of your people, meaning they live longer.

I believe this is a similar, and yet different system to the one we have in CIV IV, and i think it is more rational, realistic, and also addes a bit more depth to it as to the way your country is governed.

 

[devilhunterred]

Immigration

As i have mentioned, Civilization is all about a game of experience past human history, and i wonder why some kind of population immigration system isn't included. Surely, immigration of the people have shaped up the very course of human history: ancient Chinese immigration to the islands now known as Japan, Irish immigration to America in the late 1800s, Jewish immigration to Europe after being exiled by the Romans, etc, and i am certain you can find a dozen more examples.

If countries in CIV can trade, allowing goods and products to flow in and out, then why not people as well?

Immigration can be used by country that is in need of a larger population, or simply balancing out the birth:death rate equation, or enhancing the chance of a free Great Person or Specialist (Einstein immigrated to US from Nazi Germany, is one example of the millions out there).

To attract immigrants, your country must be higher cultured than the empire in which they came from. But beware, immigrants tend to flock to high commerce and cultured cities, ignoring your smaller undeveloped city. This can mean a sudden starvation in the city as there is not enough food for the boom of citizens.

An empire can also attracts immigrants by the means of financial stimulation, giving each new comer to the country money. With this method, the government can decide in which the immigrants will be placed in the empire.

In a more political sinister method, propaganda (yes there is propaganda in CIV V) can be used to persuade people of the targed nation to abandon their motherland and come live in yours. When done correctly, this can serverely cripple the production and population number of your enemies. A wise and proper use of a propaganda campaign can ensure victory over your enemies wthout firing a shot of the gun.

Immigrants can come from open boarder aggreements, trade routes, or neighbouring countries.

Immigrants can be limited from entering your country, simply by closing boarders, or restricting the nationality of the immigrants which can be allowed entering your empire. This is not a racist system, but rather one that provokes deeper thinking and diplomatic sense, as rival countries can often send in a spy disguised as immigrant and enter your country.

When the population are leaving your country by the masses and immigrating to rival nations, you can close down the boarder as well. Long duration of closed boarders can have heavy strain in you economy as there are no trade routes to the outside world, and the population can sometimes also riot against you. However, by constructing the Berlin Wall, or adopting certain Civics such as Police State, there is no domestic penalty for closing boarders.

 

[blaugh]

Since birth rate is almost always > death rate historically, having a city that is always growing simulates this well. In the later stages of the game, cities can grow faster than at the beginning of the game with technologies, which also simulates what you described. I see no need for it, it just would add unneeded complexity.

 

[devilhunterred]

Propaganda

Propaganda has always played such an important and crusial part of military that i also wonder why this isn't here. And i think it would addes more fun and depth to the game.

Propaganda, as i have shown, can be used to persuade people from your rival nations to come to yours, destroying their production and population number.

It can also be used during war time, causing enemy troops to surrender and stop fighting, or even join your side.

When used dometically, propaganda can boost production of the people, increasing morale of your troops, healing them faster or giving them free experience etc.

Enemy's propanda used on you, of course, can be countered by your own propaganda. This can be done, but i just haven't thought of a good system yet. Perhaps the developers and Sid can think of one. Right now im thinking of researching a tech called, well, propagand , what it does is allows your boardcasting tower and spies in enemy territory to well, use propaganda.

There is also a new slider along side the basic research slider, and the culture slider, that allows you to input your commerce into propaganda production.

The one with more boradcasting towers in the empire, more spies and more money put into the propaganda production have the stronger propaganda (god, im sick of this word now) campaign and overcomes the other.

Propaganda effect, is the result of using your own propaganda production value, and deleting the enemy's value. Say, if you have 40% after calcuated all the factors, and the enemy empire as 30%, then the real effect of your propaganda campaign is 10%. Meaning there is 10% chance of whatever it is that you wish to accomplish in your campaign.

But logically of course, the chance of persauding your enemy troops to surrender etc, would require a much higher propaganda effect value. And 100% value does not mean 100% effect, it all depends on what it is that you plan to do with your campaign.

Propaganda campaign can only be used toward one country at one time, and his defensive pact allies. (the same effect goes to the entire pact).

Certain civics enhance your propaganda effect value, while some decreases it, such as Free Speech and Free Religion.

 

[devilhunterred]

blaugh that is not true, look at Japan right now, it is suffering from low birth rate, and the net aging of the population. The government is now scrambling to solve the problem.

In ancient times, natural disasters or plaagues like the infamous Black Death caused a HUGE increase of death rate (No accurate study was made, but historians mostly agree on the aprroximate numbers that 20 million had died). It took Europe, well, LOOOOONG TIME (i am guess it is at least a century) to recover the former population it had before the plague striked.

Historically speaking, government, rulers and kings have always struggles to have positive birth rate, because if you have a positive death rate and you are not watching it, it would really slow down your economy.

 

[blaugh]

I kinda like the idea of propaganda, as you could go for some really Orwellian type civs. (I am not a history major or anything, so I may not know what I am talking about) However, historically, no country has ever relied completely on propaganda, but just used it to support them militarily, whereas in your description it sounds like a game-breaking factor. Also, it seems historically that the period where propaganda was rampant, (Beginning of communism or so to end of Cold War or so) seems to be too little a time period to be considered for Civ5.

 

[Masquerouge]

The only issue that I have with the natural disasters is that while they look good on paper, I just HATE IT when they actually happen and destroy things I've built.
It's a bit like Sim City 2000: what's the point of spending countless hours to build a nice city if it's going to be wiped by an earthquake anyway?

 

[devilhunterred]

ya true, i may have made propaganda way too overpowered.

maybe it can change the outcome of a few battles, but it really the chance of using propaganda to make your enemy troops convert to you is slim, unless you have really high Propaganda production value.

i think propaganda is used more as a morale boost of your troops or production boost of your cities and workers within your country

in terms of history, there is one very successful use of propaganda to persuade enemy country's population to flock to yours, casuing production problems. it was Cold War and US used capitailsm in West Berlin to attract Easter Berliners to come to the west in mass. historians literally called it the Brain Drain, as uncountable specialists, scientists in East Berlin left for the West and never to return.

USSR constructed the Berlin Wall, to finally stop the overflowing of its people flowing into the West

 

[devilhunterred]

well maybe natural disasters can be an option where you can click it on or off, but in Prince and higher levels it is always on.

Natural disasters in CIV is very different from Sim City. Where as in Sim City a tournado can only spell trouble, remember that in CIV, your enemies can suffer natural disasters just as much chance as you do.

and maybe if you dont want natural dasster to occur so often, a smaller nation can always mean less chance of occurence.

where as if you have an empire size of Russia, well, good luck and hope you have a lot of workers to rebuild

 

[devilhunterred]

hmm in higher age levels, maybe there is new technology called Ion Engineering which it signicantly lowers the damage your cities and improvements can be caused by natural disasters such as earthquaks and twisters

wonders can not be destroyed by natural disasters

but of course if it is volcano erruption and lava is running down towards your city...you may as well kiss everything in it, including wonders, goodbye

then again, maybe you shouldn't build a city near a volcano in the first place

 

[devilhunterred]

Spy and Double Agent

Finally, there is a spy unit in CIV IV. But i was disappointed at how little he, well, she, can actually do. By all means, spy is useful, but she just doesn't play an effective role enough, and none of them are too interesting, most of which are sabotage improvements.

Historically speaking, since the dawn of age when the sound of conflict echoed between humans, there are spies. As early as the 250 AD, spies have been used vastly in the Three Kingdoms era in Ancient China. In the 16th century, reccords have shown the Mongol's clever use of spies and espionage to betray the secrets of the high walls of the Persian fortress, and taking them down. Washington had used spies to fight the revoluation against the Red Coats. Spy is arguably the oldest military profession when archers, calvary, knights, musketman, and 1000 other military roles have became obsolete by advance in technology. But spies, they have always been here, unable to be replaced even by time.

So i wonder why is it that spies can only be used in the latest age?

Spies can surely be used in earlier age, but perhaps their capabilities are more limited to sabotage, and assasinating Great People. In later ages, spies role is more advanced, as they can kidnap Great People that have joined a city, carry him to your submarine and bring him back to your empire to work for you. Spies can also enter a city and destroy the factory, so that it is malfunction for 2 turns. Or go into the capital city, and steal 20% of all the commerce combined that is produced in the country that turn. Just imagine all the interesting stuff a spy can do.

 

[devilhunterred]

well blaugh propaganda uses by the government, in either peacetime or wartime, is much more frequent than you think

propaganda had been used in almost all the modern wars, WWI, WWII, Vietnam War, and undoubtedly the Cold War, if you count that as a war.

propaganda has also used in ancient times as well, to lower morale of the enemy troops, using rival country's own people and riot against the king

nonetheless, the most constant barrage of propaganda we receive is actually from our own governmnt, and most of us don't even realize it. Censorship and slight modification to the news we hear and watch everyday by the government, is considered propaganda. When our president or prime minister makes a speech (depending on where you live), his words are meant to formulate a specific way of how we think and what our opinions are, that is also propaganda.

propaganda can be used in radio shows, tv shows, movies, musical, etc any form of popular mass media passage, that the majority of general public can receive with ease.

propaganda is definitely used much more freqeunt than we think, it's just that we are numbed by it and most of us don't realize it's there.

 

[Commander Bello]

I agree on the point of weather effects.

Birth rate and propaganda are always in (at a general level, though) and the spy just sufferes from the poor AI.

 

[JavalTigar]

I have said it before and it needs repeating:

Any device that can affect production and cannot be prevented by the player has the potential to cost the game.

Therefore it must be a option that is selected at startup with default to off.

 

[blaugh]

I think tourism should be added. If you have a well culutred civ, you receive additional tourist income per turn, and you can build tourist buildings and such. It would certainly add to the peaceful side of the game.

 

[devilhunterred]

blaugh lol you won't believe that i have thought about it too

tourism would definitely be a nice feature, it makes wonders more valuable because they attract tourists and thus increase your commerce

immigrants and tourists can be tied in together, because they are both population flow

 

[nachoslim109]

personally a lot of it seems like good ideas on paper, but logistically would just overcomplicate the gameplay. Yes more realistic, but I am not sure if it will be more fun.

 

[cf_nz]

I agree with nachoslim109.

Whilst the ideas do sound very good Civ IV excels in many ways because of it's simplicity.

If you want to simulate tourism, add a commerce to appropriate buildings (all wonders at least) at an appropriate time (technology). For me that is the Civ IV way of thinking.