What would you do in this situation?

Alex...

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
4
First of all i'd like to say, although I’m not the worst player, I’m far from being an expert at Civ but playing in this multiplayer match the other day I’d like to know what anyone would have done differently because I thought it was quite unfair.

FFA match, 6 players, Pangaea, Small map, Standard game speed, Ancient Era. I got China after picking random civ and my starting position wasn’t too great – 1 fur, 2 silk, 2 wheat, 1 sheep and the rest were either plains or tundra. After producing a scout first I looked around my area and found that I was at the most northerly point of the map with snow and tundra above me - coast was 4 tiles north of my capital and 3 tiles east.

Few turns later I find France who's capital is at max 8 or 9 tiles south west of mine (which I thought was unusually close). Around this time, 17 turns in, i'd completed a worker with my order going (scout > worker > warrior) and so started working on a warrior. After scouting his capital I saw that he has 2 warriors, 1 spearman and a scout, which is feasible as he already had 2 tradition - most likely free culture building and + growth plus he had 2 cattle. When I clicked on his city he was also making +18 GNP with around 250 gold compared to my +8 with around 120 gold (not sure how that was happening?).

So after my second warrior was complete I started work on my settler - intending to settle about 5 tiles below my capital which was a good position (gems, cattle). With 6 turns left until my settler was built, Orleans is founded in the position south of me that I was planning to go (at this point he advanced to the Classical Era while I was 12 turns away from Iron working, also having 2 spearmen, 1 warrior and a scout on my border).

When my settler finished building I settled 4 tiles north west of my capital in a terrible location (1 sheep the rest tundra, grassland, coast, snow and plains) as I had no room to expand elsewhere with his capital eating up all the land with Frances +culture bonus. When I finish my turn he declares war and destroys my warrior (alert in rough terrain with +combat bonus in rough terrain) with one attack from his spearman and one from his scout, causing minimal damage to both (Not sure how that worked?) taking my worker in the progress.

Now I found myself in the position where I was trapped in a corner with France rapidly taking all the remaining tiles, 8 turns away from Iron working, with one warrior, no worker and up against a player that was technologically, culturally, economically and militarily more advanced than me. Now i'd like to point out that I have never before quit in a multiplayer Civ V match but honestly it felt like i'd just be wasting my time waiting for him to eventually finish me off.

So if you read all of that, thank you, but I genuinely would like to know what you would have done differently in that same situation and where you think I went wrong?
 
I just made a thread covering a smilar situation, check it, but to answer direct...

As soon as you see france, expect him to make a very early settler and rush you with early war.

So strike him first. Ideally pick off a unit with war vs scout war. Or scout his border and take good defence/ scouting positions. Try to steal his settler and warrior escort with double move 2 v1.

12 turns behind his iron tech? He speeded it up with pop/ extra city no doubt. I guess you went animal or writing before iron? It is prudent to beeline iron from the off on 6 player pang, chances are there will be early war.

What policy you take?

maybe as soon as you see france, if you went lib, forget the settler and just go, scout , worker, units and settle with free settler policy. If you went trad then maybe switch to lib and go scout, monument, finish worker, units, or a few units then worker and back to units, stay one city, get walls up or archers or both, or just spam spear, chopping forests, only build the amount of warriors you expect to afford to upgrade, pray to sid meier for iron in cap. Settle junk city for iron 2nd best or just hold him off with spears, archers and walls then make infrastructure/ NC/ play a diplogame try to get 2 v1 on him. Beeline chokonus. Without iron you prob just delaying the end though. Once he gets longs and siege its over. If you do survive get great wall, NC, himeji, uni, ironworks and bunker down for space win! settle junk cities for resources later.
 
The tech order I chose, if I remember correctly, was: Animal husbandry > Mining > *The Wheel from ruins* > Bronze > Iron, and I went for tradition with the policies.

Just looked at your thread and it does seem to be a similar situation, France in general seem to always dominate every multiplayer game so I was wary that he would take an early lead, just not so much as he did. Still don't understand how an attack from a spearman and scout could kill my warrior on a hill, alert and with a rough terrain bonus?

Thanks for the rest of the advice though, should help if I ever find myself in a similar situation again, especially against France.
 
2 hills - one to the bottom left 1 tile from my capital and one 2 tiles away in the top left.
 
FFA match, 6 players, Pangaea, Small map, Standard game speed, Ancient Era. I got China after picking random civ and my starting position wasn’t too great – 1 fur, 2 silk, 2 wheat, 1 sheep and the rest were either plains or tundra.

this is not bad, i would even call it great place for a capital with 2 wheat and even 1 sheep. and if you start near tundra theres often enough iron next by.

but back to your game. if you really think your capital sucks, why do u even bother with tradition? (also imho liberty works better for china, but thats just my opinion).

if you go for scout then worker, you must build settler next and do this with CHOPPING. build 2nd city as fast as possible to get more production and more growth and hopefully you get luxury from mining too. cose all calendar resources suck in a military game early on, i prefer mining or masonry resources over trapping over follows tech of pottery! but in this case you may could go for an very early granary with 2 wheats and then try to go vertical if you really want to stick with tradition n china (imho more cities means more gold from papermakers and since patch they nerfed the brutto gold income so hard thats not even worth it to think about multipliers for a vertical growth)

i also want to give some general tips playing china:

imho you should always think about every decision u make. for example was it really necessary to tech animal husbandry in a tundra like enviroment? i dont have a picture of your starting location but i guess there were many woods, in this case no horses can spawn and you have only 1 sheep (which will offer +1 food). +1 food is easy aquired if you build farms on wheat (which are great in plains with prod!) so you wasted 4-5 round of your critical early research for a tech u didnt need! only trapping could be usefull for 1 luxury, but couldnt your scout spot a mining luxury nearby for a 2nd city? (much easier to grab with just a settler on top of it!)

why did you go for straight iron tech with china? archers and warriors can easy stop a swordmen rush, but cost less gold maybe a bit more production (since the iron rusher will try to upgrade normal warriors and u must hardbuild archers). you can also rush buy 1 archer per 3 upgraded swordsmen if really necessary. instead as china maybe build an early 2nd scout to find bow n arrows for one of them; china can get a superb archer unit around turn 60-70.
you go wheat which benefits from granaries which needs pottery. you had silk!, you can build superb libraries 3 techs which all benefit you. why do you run the military path? learn to defend vs rushes and you will greatly outperform your opponent later on.
 
i also want to give some general tips playing china:

imho you should always think about every decision u make. for example was it really necessary to tech animal husbandry in a tundra like enviroment? i dont have a picture of your starting location but i guess there were many woods, in this case no horses can spawn and you have only 1 sheep (which will offer +1 food). +1 food is easy aquired if you build farms on wheat (which are great in plains with prod!) so you wasted 4-5 round of your critical early research for a tech u didnt need! only trapping could be usefull for 1 luxury, but couldnt your scout spot a mining luxury nearby for a 2nd city? (much easier to grab with just a settler on top of it!)

why did you go for straight iron tech with china? archers and warriors can easy stop a swordmen rush, but cost less gold maybe a bit more production (since the iron rusher will try to upgrade normal warriors and u must hardbuild archers). you can also rush buy 1 archer per 3 upgraded swordsmen if really necessary. instead as china maybe build an early 2nd scout to find bow n arrows for one of them; china can get a superb archer unit around turn 60-70.
you go wheat which benefits from granaries which needs pottery. you had silk!, you can build superb libraries 3 techs which all benefit you. why do you run the military path? learn to defend vs rushes and you will greatly outperform your opponent later on.

As I said i'm not the best player by a long shot so i'm prone to making quite a few mistakes. I guess I went for the military route because it started working really well in a lot of my other games and I didn't realise it's success was so reliant on so many different factors. Do you if there's a thread somewhere detailing the strengths and weaknesses of each Civ?

Thanks a lot for this advice though, very helpful
 
You can add % resistance when fortify warrior. Press F at least 4-5 turns before attack and stay there to get a full 50% bonus fortification. You can ''secure''land in early turns with fortifying. If opponent has no archer, it's even more useful. With this trick, your warrior will regen 2 hp each turn while being fortified. He may need 3 units to kill a single fortified warrior in a forested tile. Better if on a forested hill.

If you plan to get only 2 cities and attack somebody from toundra land, expect iron tiles around. Chop your settler and warriors and upgrade when it's possible. Extra hammers in the beginning can save your ass.

I usually have problems when i settle close to opponent and don't have iron nearby(and can't be pillaged). Going HBR after IW can take time and when i'm close to have horsemen i can face 1 or 2 longswordmen. A wall and a garrisoned archer are better if built in time, instead of horse.

Edit : But if you really think that France is already strong with a second settled city, you can also do a warrior rush and try to steal his worker and slow him down, until you discover iron. Try to keep at least 2-3 warriors when you get iron.
 
before you warrior rush into the enemy try to park a scout on a hill next to france cities, at best 2 tiles away from them. get sight on his land, especially what his worker is doing. you will also force him to protect the worker by a warrior.

if your really lucky or the french player is to risky you can even catch his settler! (imho turned off barbs makes it to easy for france to spamm cities but thats another question) use your scouts, especially the upgrade for vision n movement are welcome vs HI, vs AI the healing n defense could be better.
 
Indeed, as Antarion suggests one of the pressures against the common Scout-Worker-Settler build order from France is 2 warriors + scout and don't let him use his settler. The downside is the potential of getting attacked by barbs that should be attacking France, or from Barbs that enter your territory.
 
i dont play that agressivly that i bringt scout n warrior to the enemy. just the scout so he must build atleast one military unit per civil one or else i can grab them.

my warrior normally protects my own worker later my first settler (comes between turn 15-20 regardless of policies except i find el dorado or play france with ruins).

i often build one more scout for home defense and scouting of secured ruins near my home base but later on, so u get some nice XP for your first general and still can watch the enemy.
 
Personally, I just try to outmacro my opponent. Its rare that attempts to punish a good opponent early on will be successful, without bringing unexpected and overwhelming force, like a horse or sword rush.
 
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