What's Sid level like?

[Grotius]

I apologize if this question has been asked before, but I can't use the search function in this forum. What is the difference between Sid level and Demi-God or Deity? For that matter, what's the difference between Demi-God and Deity?

Also, are the tactics at Deity above the same as they were last time I played Civ (many moons ago): tech-trade, attack neighboring Civs early? I don't mind the tech-brokering; it's the warmongering that rubs me the wrong way. I'm a builder at heart. Any way to win at Sid, Demi-God, or Deity without wiping out neighboring Civs?

 

[microbe]

Originally posted by Grotius
Any way to win at Sid, Demi-God, or Deity without wiping out neighboring Civs?

It's not a question whether to wipe out your neighbors. It's a question whether they wipe you out or not.

 

[JustBen]

Head over to the Succession Game forums for the most accurate answer to that question.

I personally think it's hard to not be going to war at Deity, since the land-grab stage of the game favors your opponents so heavily.

 

[cgannon64]

Lets put it this way - currently people are playing Sid Survival games.

 

[Grotius]

OK, OK, so you gotta fight to survive on Sid. Got it.

But what are the new rules for Sid level? Is every new citizen born really really unhappy now? Or does the AI just get bigger production advantages?

 

[ChrTh]

1. I was able to win a GOTM on Deity without fighting a single battle. Not saying that I could ever do it again, but it's feasible. Fighting a lot actually makes Deity easier.

2. From my understanding of it, the SID level has faster production and more starting units. The aggression setting might also be higher, but I'm not sure.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Differences in the levels of:
Demigod/Deity/Sid

For the AI
------------------
AI starting units:
Offense- 6/8/12
Defense- 3/4/6
Settlers- 1/1/2 (this is in addition to the 1 settler everyone always gets)
Workers- 2/2/4 (in addition to the 1 worker everyone gets)

Free unit support (per civ): 12/16/24
Additional Free unit support (per city): 3/4/8

Max Anarchy (for AI): 2/2/1

Cost Factor: 7/6/4 This is the big one. 10 is what it is for humans on all levels and what regent is. It is how much it costs for building stuff and population growth. On Sid, the AI gets a 60% reduction in shield costs and food required. If you need 100 shields to build something, the AI on Sid only needs 40 shields.

AI to AI trade ratio: (discount the AI's give each other in trading)
160/170/200
-
-
-
For the Human: (AI always plays by regent rules for these, unless you change the 'default AI intelligence')
------------------------
Citizens born content:
1/1/1
Citizens quelled by military:
1/1/1
Attack bonus against barbarians 25%/ 0%/ 0%
Percentage of Optimal cities: 70/60/50

 

[Bamspeedy]

Forgot to add:

Human tech costs are proportionate to the AI cost factor, so techs costs alot more on Sid, too.


Oh, those are the factors that are listed in the editor. There are some other things that change by difficulty level, but I'm not sure how much they are changed between these levels. Some other things are:

Good hut results (can't possibly get a settler/city on Sid?)
Starting attitude of the AI towards the human
Trade bonuses/penalties when trading with the AI

 

[Wardog]

In theory, after all, is it possible or not to win at Sid level?

Or nobody has the answer yet?

 

[Bamspeedy]

Yes it is possible, as it has already been done.

 

[Ridgelake]

I am not aware of any body or any team that has won on Sid yet in a standard "Epic" game. I read that some people beat Sid in the C3C beta on archipelo maps where the early AI advantages were minimized. I also read some people have won in the elimination game where if you lose 1 city, your entire nation falls.

There is a current succession game led by Arathorn named "Scouting Sid" that is about to come to a close. They have survived, but it looks like the AIs will likely launch or get a diplo win before they can enter the modern age. Its a fun read.

My guess is that Sid could be defeated with the right map and a lot of luck. The new patch will certainly help.

Edit: According to Bamspeedy, it has been done. I would love to see the reference for it. That would be a great read, indeed!

 

[Moonsinger]

I'm expecting to win my first Sid, you can read more about it here. However, once the new patch come out, it may be even more difficult to win, but not impossible!

 

[Grotius]

Bamspeedy, thanks for that very informative reply. And Ridgelake, thanks for the tip on "Scouting Sid"; I'll check it out.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I read that some people beat Sid in the C3C beta on archipelo maps where the early AI advantages were minimized.

True, the AI is at a disadvantage on island maps.

But I kind of think it's silly when some people refer to playing island maps as a "questionable tactic", but they have no problems when their buddies play on island maps for Sid level. Some people like to diminish the efforts of anyone who isn't their 'buddy'. (That isn't directed towards you, Ridgelake)

I would love to see the reference for it.

I just tried finding it, but must have missed it. It was posted in the Conquests forums, probably 3 or 4 weeks ago or so. The title was something like "I just beat Sid", or "I beat Sid" or something like that. Somebody playing as the Aztecs. Not much of a read, but he did post a save. I didn't look at the save, so can't confirm whether or not he had any multi-player victory conditions enabled, but I don't think he did.

And many, many people don't make stories/reports about their games.

 

[cgannon64]

Bamspeedy: Does that mean that the AI gets three settlers? And just wondering, do they spread them out or do they start them all on the same tile? If they spread them out at the start then their advantage is a little bit less.

BTW I wouldn't really consider any Sid win a true win until someone wins on Standard Agression, max random AIs, and on continents or Pangea. That is the true challange.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Originally posted by cgannon64
Bamspeedy: Does that mean that the AI gets three settlers? And just wondering, do they spread them out or do they start them all on the same tile? If they spread them out at the start then their advantage is a little bit less.

They start at the same tile. 3 settlers total. So by 3800 BC they have ~3 cities (when your only city hasn't even hit size 2 yet).

BTW I wouldn't really consider any Sid win a true win until someone wins on Standard Agression, max random AIs, and on continents or Pangea. That is the true challange.

HIGHEST agression, max civs, Pangea.

 

[Revolutionary]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
[BHIGHEST agression, max civs, Pangea. [/B]

now thats a Challenge

oh yes and pick a civ with the weakest traits and most useless UU

 

[dreamvirus]

Is it just me, or is anyone else not interested in playing at the highest levels? I mean, I love a challenge, but what I love most of all is an equal challenge. I know that the AI is stupid and there's not much that can be done about that. I mean, it's taken them years and BUCKETS of hardware to bring chess AIs up to the highest human standard, and chess is nowhere near as complicated as civ3. But to me, there's no enjoyment in trying to survive or win in a game where the computer has been given such overwhelming advantages. I enjoyed playing at Emperor level because it seems just about fair. Maybe now that I have Conquests I'll try moving up to Demigod and see what it's like.

I played Deity a few times on Vanilla and even won a couple of games, but I didn't enjoy it. It was like trying to run a race with one leg shoved up my ***.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
HIGHEST agression, max civs, Pangea.

And MUST win by Spaceship, Conquests, Domination, Histograph, or Cultural too! Some people can just sit around with a few dozen cities in the ancient age while waiting for the AI to finish the UN, then they sign RoP/MPP/whatever and take the UN with about 100 swordmans/immortals. Anyway, I wouldn't consider that as a true win on Sid.

 

[Revolutionary]

Originally posted by Moonsinger


And MUST win by Spaceship, Conquests, Domination, Histograph, or Cultural too! Some people can just sit around with a few dozen cities in the ancient age while waiting for the AI to finish the UN, then they sign RoP/MPP/whatever and take the UN with about 100 swordmans/immortals. Anyway, I wouldn't consider that as a true win on Sid.

I never thought about that

that actually seems like a great idea