What's the fastest science rate you've managed?

[Cromagnus]

Seeing that knowledge can reduce the per-city penalty, might I suggest to post normalized science yields instead:

For normal size, normal speed Beakers per turn/(number of non-capital cities * 0.05 + 1) if you don't have Networked Datalinks, or Beakers per turn/(number of non-capital cities * 0.03 + 1) if you do. This will accurately represent your research speed.

Alternatively, post the cost of a third-ring tech in addition to the total beaker output. On normal speed they cost 2480 if you have only one city.

This is a great point. Next time I'll try to post cost of a third ring tech and I'll also include the date, so people playing at different speeds can more easily translate.

 

[Makaz]

Hi,

Not related to topic but on the proposed screens, how do you get +95 and +357 health ???

Best achieved was 850, domination win on a std appolo pangea map t280. Could have done 1200 if I had bother building TR out of every cities but I was more focussed on ending the game to take the last capitals.

 

[Nemenoob]

In my actually game i try a domination victory only, standard map with 8 civ, speed fast, apollo.

Now im turn 191 with 2154 beakers, only internal routes. 53 citys so far but 21 from them produce nothing since they in strike

I didnt focus on tech with improvings, very few academys, alot terrascape (its the right english word?).

 

[AlaskA]

Hi, at the screenshot (attachment) next turn im win (im target my flower, there 1 turn to trans vic). My science here is a natural number, coz think culture more cruicial and try boost culture first. I have only 13 cities, i dont like "wide" strategies, too lazy to control.

Just for the fun im adjust ur OCC system and gain 970/12*0,03+1 = 713 on the turn 166.

if i make all cities science specialist and produce science.. what numbers i reach? Hmm...

Forgot:

Appolo
Standart speed
Massive size

 

[Cromagnus]

Hi, at the screenshot (attachment) next turn im win (im target my flower, there 1 turn to trans vic). My science here is a natural number, coz think culture more cruicial and try boost culture first. I have only 13 cities, i dont like "wide" strategies, too lazy to control.

Just for the fun im adjust ur OCC system and gain 970/12*0,03+1 = 713 on the turn 166.

if i make all cities science specialist and produce science.. what numbers i reach? Hmm...

Forgot:

Appolo
Standart speed
Massive size

Massive affects the per-city science penalty, so that skews the numbers. Even in civ5, the larger the map, the better wide empires fared, meaning that you could achieve ridiculous science numbers. In CivBE it's waaay worse IMHO. I won't even consider playing Massive until they tune things. The game is absurd right now on any difficulty level, but reducing the science penalty just makes it laughable.

Right now the most effective strategy is simply to build settlers & trade units as fast as possible. Everything else hardly matters.

 

[AlaskA]

Massive affects the per-city science penalty, so that skews the numbers. Even in civ5, the larger the map, the better wide empires fared, meaning that you could achieve ridiculous science numbers. In CivBE it's waaay worse IMHO. I won't even consider playing Massive until they tune things. The game is absurd right now on any difficulty level, but reducing the science penalty just makes it laughable.

Right now the most effective strategy is simply to build settlers & trade units as fast as possible. Everything else hardly matters.

Okay, now i know that 13 cities = wide empire

and u start this topic for what, can i ask? just for whining? don't whine, dude. lol

 

[Cromagnus]

Okay, now i know that 13 cities = wide empire

and u start this topic for what, can i ask? just for whining? don't whine, dude. lol

Uh, nope. I wanted to know what a competitive finish time is. Since my original post I have discovered that the game balance is so horribly broken you might as well not try to develop efficient strategies. Why? Because the most efficient approach right now is so broken it will most definitely be nerfed, making it somewhat moot to even try right now.

I'm still curious to see what people can achieve with < 10 cities though, because with that artificial limit, choices other than "spam cities as fast as you can" actually start to matter.

 

[AlaskA]

I'm still curious to see what people can achieve with < 10 cities though, because with that artificial limit, choices other than "spam cities as fast as you can" actually start to matter.

When "i spam as fast as i can", im finish about turn 200. When i change my strategy, im start finish the game about turn 160-170. My best result at standart\standart\appolo is turn 161. And i never focus science, coz i don't get a point, why i need so much techs at early game, when my cities cant build all new buildings and i have no workers to get reward from open tech with improvements upgrade. Can u explain, why science so cruicial? Maybe i miss something? Im really miss one thing, but it's about having city with 250+ hammers when i open wincon wonder. If i can improve this moment, i think i can break t150 win.

Im turn off contact victory coz it's too easy to abuse, so all my numbers - trans and emanc victories. And i never attack AI before, so i never try win by dominating. But im sure, i cant ruin all 7 AI leaders in a 150 turns...

So the main question - is science focus worth following it?

 

[Cromagnus]

So the main question - is science focus worth following it?

Valid question. But you need 13 affinity points for the victory conditions that aren't stupidly easy right now. And barring a Might-based strategy, science is how you get those points. Having played with Might-focused starts, IMHO, the affinity points you gain are countered by the ones you lose from a slower tech rate. So I still think tech is king to get you to those 13 points.

BTW, I still think if you had 13 cities for a t160 win that counts as spamming cities. Maybe I'm just too used to Civ5, but that's REX to me.

I don't consider the production problem to be worth solving, since you can switch all routes to send production to the capital for the quest building. The amount of production you can get from any other method is minimal by comparison to the 100+ you can get from internal TR. The more cities you have, the more production your capital has at the end, so again, trade routes are overpowered, both internal and external. All you have to do is have a capital with way more production than your satellite cities, which is trivial to accomplish.

However, it's true that if you ignore production it slows down your victory. Eh, honestly I don't care anymore. All the VCs need a rework. Domination is still too easy because the AI is hapless. Contact is stupid. And the other 3 aren't balanced. You can only pop one settler/turn out of the gate no matter what, whereas the other 2 affinity victories can be sped up.

I'll wait for a major rework of the game, probably the first expansion, to bother with CivBE anymore. Back to Civ5 for me. Mostly. I'm playing the Apollo challenges people post just for fun.

 

[metagross]

Mostly. I'm playing the Apollo challenges people post just for fun.

Has there been more than one of those? I would to play some more Apollo challenges.

 

[metagross]

Here are my numbers from the Apollo challenge game (turns are kinda random, went back where I had Save files):

T90 - 107 BpT, 5 cities, 2 outposts
T108 - 223 BpT, 7 cities, 3 outposts, 2 puppets
T116 - 306 BpT, 12 cities, 1 outpost (no puppets)
T130 - 500 BpT, 14 cities, 4 outposts (376 BpT from Trade Routes), 65 Unhealth, 500 EpT, 37 CpT, Harmony 7
T146 - 538 BpT, 17 cities, 1 outpost (started switching Trade Routes to Capital for Mind Flower)
T176 - Transcendence

Didn't need Science after Harmony 13 so those numbers wouldn't be relevant.
Also, I never micro'd my cities, so I could probably have gotten higher numbers with Scientist specialists.

 

[teqofc]

Standard, Standard, Hutama, Apollo.

239 beakers on t129, 6 cities
530 beakers on t178, 8 cities
785 beakers on t215, 8 cities
Purity Victory t215

Victory would have come sooner if I hadn't got screwed on quests. Missed out on 2 purity affinity because of it so couldn't build gate till t188.

t129

Spoiler :

t178

Spoiler :

t215

Spoiler :

 

[teqofc]

Funny thing is I replayed that same map from my previous post and just went with 4 cities this time same Apollo setting. I got a victory only 3 turns later with far less science just 339 spt at turn 218. With the right quests, focus on affinity and stealing science you can get to 13 affinity easily even with lame +spt.

Spoiler :

Oh well good thing Dragon Age : Inquisition is ready to play tonight. Hopefully when I finish that game this one will be fixed to make it harder and more interesting.

 

[alpaca]

Just for the fun im adjust ur OCC system and gain 970/12*0,03+1 = 713 on the turn 166.

That's pretty impressive. Can you post some further points about your strategy? Where does your science mainly come from? Which virtues did you choose?

 

[AlaskA]

That's pretty impressive. Can you post some further points about your strategy? Where does your science mainly come from? Which virtues did you choose?

Im stop playing massive and start new standart game. im post numbers from it when i finish it and explain how i reach it.

It's take some experiments, during them im find really fun how sometimes at early game building lab (+3 science) totally RUIN external TR and science income to this city goes down to 5 from 15.

 

[Acken]

Currently having a pretty strong game going with 256 science on 15 cities at turn 102. So considering I don't have the knowledge reduction yet, it's worth 156 in OCC numbers.

 

[Cromagnus]

Im stop playing massive and start new standart game. im post numbers from it when i finish it and explain how i reach it.

It's take some experiments, during them im find really fun how sometimes at early game building lab (+3 science) totally RUIN external TR and science income to this city goes down to 5 from 15.

Fun? That's totally broken.

 

[metagross]

Currently having a pretty strong game going with 256 science on 15 cities at turn 102. So considering I don't have the knowledge reduction yet, it's worth 156 in OCC numbers.

15 cities on turn 102? That's crazy! How did you manage that? Sell EpT for Colonists money? Early conquest?

 

[Acken]

Yeah just money abuse

 

[Acken]

So I've finished my objective of reaching a harmony victory below 150 turns (see the other thread "fastest victories"). Managed it in 145 turns. My science at the end was at 1059 for 21 cities (so 650 standardized to OCC). My rate was around 950 when I reached harmony 13 at turn 137.